Classic Rauchbier

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Spider889, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Looking for some advice, my current recipe is:

    83% Weyermann Smoked Malt (Beechwood)
    9% Weyermann Rye
    5% Carafoam

    1oz German Hallertau (60)
    1oz German Hallertau (20)

    90 minute boil

    Yeast: Wyeast Kolsch 2565 (I don't have the temp control to use lager yeast)

    Also planning to use Dehusked Carafa for color. I was thinking of Carafa II and just steeping it for better control - not sure I want it in the mash. Thoughts here?

    Finally I am also considering a partial decoction, input here would be great, too.

    I have heard varying things about the quality of the smoked malt here in the states. That's the main reason for using so much of it. I have also had numerous brewers tell me that with the beechwood smoked malt you pretty much can't overdo it. I don't want a campfire in my glass, but I do want a pretty sizable smoke punch. Not really interested in using oak smoked malt or any other variation.
     
  2. DrewBeechum

    DrewBeechum Pooh-Bah (1,954) Mar 15, 2003 California
    Pooh-Bah

    The problem with predicting Rauchmalz character lays in the variability, large due to age. I know some folks out there do nothing but 100% rauch for their true smoke beers and report back that their beers are smokey, but not over the top. Personally, I'm convinced those people may have short circuited their nose via cigs, the cousin or years of bacon abuse. :slight_smile:

    If this is your first go-around with the Rauchmalt, I'd cut her to 50%, subbing pils for the remainder 33% and then let it develop and see what you get. If it's not smokey enough, lesson learned and you still have a drinkable beer.

    Decoction is always nice if you have the time, even if I'm not convinced of their usefulness.
     
  3. mattsander

    mattsander Initiate (0) Feb 3, 2010 Canada (AB)

    The grain bill you have listed will result in an extremely smoky beer. I've done smoked beers with 45% beechwood malt and they are very smoke-forward, so you could easily cut the amount in half and still have a nicely smoky beer.
     
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Classic Rauchbier does not use rye, as it is not allowed in a lager under the German tax laws. It is your beer and you can do it if you want. A little caramunich is not a bad thing either, but use a light hand, maybe 3% or a little less.

    You can cold steep the carafa, no problem, just add the cold steep at the start of mashout.

    A decoction is more work, have you done one before?
     
  5. ithacabaron

    ithacabaron Savant (1,169) Jul 16, 2003 California

    100% rauchmalt + mesh screen + smoker + apple and cherry wood = blue ribbon at three different competitions.

    Smoking malt that's already been smoked might sound over the top, but it worked for me.
     
  6. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah I should have mentioned that while I know rye isn't traditional I wanted to try it out. That element aside, I am trying to keep it as close to tradiition/BJCP guidelines as possible for my first go.

    I was thinking of using a little caramunich, though it was going to be more for color than anything originally. When I saw that it alone wouldn't realistically bring the SRM into guidelines I moved to the Carafa. Is caramunich traditional here?

    I have done a decotion to hit mashout temp once or twice and also have done a two-step decoction after an initial protein rest (the recipe is stored elsewhere or I'd give more detail). I definitely find it more work, but it is fun and I have always been pleased with the results of the beers I have decocted. Again, I guess I'd ask if it would be traditional at all for this style of beer? I figure that this is yet another way to gain some color without using as much specialty grain.
    Lol, now we're getting back into my dilemma - some advocate caution with smoked malt and others the opposite.

    For your beer above, was that entered as a classic rauchbier or as other smoked beer? Interesting ideas there but I don't see myself going to that extreme this time around. Once I feel out this Weyermann malt I can start getting more edgy. I'd love to do a beer smoked with pecan wood sometime actually.
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Double decoction is traditional. After all of my many attempts, I've come to the conclusion that it's essential to nail the base Maerzen style first. What this translates to is around 70% Weyermann smoked malt and then a combination of Pils and Munich malt (say 14-15% each) and a bit less than a pound of Caramunich II or Caravienne and just enough Carafa dehusked special (note, must be dehusked, otherwise you'll get a harsh roasted character that clashes with the smoke) to get around 20 SRM. The primary thing preventing you from making a classic Rauchbier is that you're not using a lager yeast. Still, I think the Koelsch yeast could be interesting...the Rittmayer Rauchbier I just had this past summer had something slightly fruity about it that worked well; perhaps the 2565 can give you that.
     
  8. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah it sucks that I can't use the proper yeast. I made a Kolsch with 2565 this past spring thought and it was quite clean imo. I kept it nice and cold the whole time during fermentation, plus an extra half week or so post. Then let it warm to room temp for a diacetyl rest before bottling. It wasn't very fruity at all.

    I considered trying to use lager yeast and just ferment in my garage (which I will probably do anyways with the Kolsch yeast). It's getting cooler now but we're still seeing a big enough temperature swing (35-40*F at night to anywhere from 50-75* during the day) that I decided attempting a lager without fine-tuned temperature control would be a mistake.
     
  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Yea, temperature control is key. It has only been after getting a temperature regulator and heating pad "installed" in the chest freezer that I've been able to regulate temps within 1 degree C with consistency. And, man, has it made a difference in the finished product! Will be very interested to hear how the 2565 works, as I regularly brew a Koelsch and would like to be able to (re)use that yeast for my Rauchbier.
     
  10. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Ok so here's what I'm looking at now for recipe, yes I still would like to use some rye:

    65% Weyermann Smoked Malt (Beechwood)
    11% German Pils
    11% Munich
    6.5% Weyermann Rye
    6.5% Caramunich II

    Dehusked Carafa II (steep) for color.

    1oz German Hallertau (60)
    1oz German Hallertau (20)

    Double Decoction
    90 minute boil

    Yeast: Wyeast Kolsch 2565
     
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    If you are thinking of competing with this beer, I suggest you not be shy about the smoke. I only speak form a small amount of experience though. I entered one competition with my only smoked beer I ever made and it did OK, about a 33 IIRC. Both judges commented that there was only a hint of smoke. Yet to me, not well-experienced in smoke beers, and never being one to abuse bacon (see Drewbage's comment), well, this beer was as smokey as I would want it. Every commercial smoked beer I ever had (which is maybe two) was too smokey for me.

    EDIT: In my beer (smoked schwarzbier), I used 1# if cherrywood smoked malt (Briess) with one 1 can of Munich extract (also Briess).
     
  13. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm trying to stick close to guidelines mainly as a reference point for where the beer ought to be and to get close to what I am looking for. I don't anticipate competing with this batch, though after tweaking it I might try to do so next year.

    I'm mainly looking for a smoke-forward beer that doesn't smell like meat, and one that's super drinkable. I've had some draft German rauchbiers that weren't over the top and lent themselves to quaffing steins of the stuff. I know that many commercial examples can indeed get close to over-smoked for me. Schlenkerla is one such brewery - some of their stuff is amazing and some is borderline hard to drink. I think the main line that once crossed I dislike is when non-beechwood is used. Oak can get overpowering and cherrywood is almost always overpowering to me.
     
  14. ithacabaron

    ithacabaron Savant (1,169) Jul 16, 2003 California

    It was in the Classic Rauchbier category. Picked up first place in every competition I entered it in. That being said, if you don't like Schlenkerla, it's probably not for you. It sounds like you want to bring out more of the Marzen flavors; if you do that, I'd go with 66% rauchmalt, 17% vienna malt, and 17% munich. Also, I'd suggest Tett hops over Hallertau for a more classic profile. The rule with this style is to keep things as simple as possible.
     
  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Did the apple-/cherrywood flavor come through much? With the Briess cherrywood-smoked malt I find the tartness of the cherry very prominent in the smoke profile, to such a degree that I wouldn't classify any beer with those characteristics as a "classic" Rauchbier. Still, I've very interested to hear about how the smoking of the Weyermann Rauchmalz turned out, as I've thought about doing this myself (but only with beechwood).
     
  16. ithacabaron

    ithacabaron Savant (1,169) Jul 16, 2003 California

    It comes through as a very mellow sweetness (and I'd say that I used 75% applewood, 25% cherrywood). In my mind, it just helps round out the naturally luscious malt character of the traditional Marzen base-style. I don't know that I'd do a 100% applewood/cherrywood brew, because you're right -- that wouldn't be rauchbier. But re-smoking the traditional rauchmalz, it works every time.

    Oh -- another thing you might want to try, in moderation, is old grapevines, which have a really nice, almost tobacco-leaf smoke character.
     
  17. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Damn that sounds good. I'll have to give that a whirl sometime.
     
  18. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't wanna know, not gonna ask. :rolling_eyes:
     
  19. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Lol I was actually just rereading that and wasn't sure if it's just odd phrasing, or a hint at something a little more... illegal in most states...
     
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