Closed Transfer Question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by drinkybanjo, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. drinkybanjo

    drinkybanjo Initiate (120) Sep 4, 2008 New Jersey

    All

    I've purchased the equipment to do closed transfers from my Big Mouth Bubbler fermenter to my Pin Lock Keg. In the video I watched on this, the person doing the transfer setup a blow off tube from the keg into some Starsan. I was simply going to open the pressure release valve on the keg, should I use the blow off instead?

    http://www.3683brewing.com/closed-transfer-system/

    Thanks,
    Tim
     
  2. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (450) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    your way will work just fine
     
  3. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Not sure, I haven't bothered with a blow off tube but I'm not sure how much O2 ingress the release valve actually allows. I have always worried about release valves and dry hop aroma when bleeding pressure to fill a bottle off the keg.
     
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  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I use a spunding valve on the gas post, set to retain a pressure that's lower than the transfer pressure, so that gases only move out of the keg and not into it.
     
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  5. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (165) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    The amount of oxygen getting into your keg is pretty much pointless to worry about using this method. You're already preventing a lot of o2 exposure by doing what you're doing. But if you're really concerned, hook on your gas in and attach a hose to it and soak it in starsan like you mentioned. I believe if you're doing closed transfers, you're doing good in regards to o2 exposure.
     
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  6. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (165) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    Wait, what the hell?? How does this even make sense? Why would oxygen be going into the keg while venting and filling up the keg??? Now if you were done filling and then leave the valve opened, then yes, some oxygen will be going into the keg.
     
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  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I you have significant flow out of the keg it probably wouldn't be an issue. But it would have to be constant and the keg should be vented after the pressure is applied and closed before pressure is stopped. I don't really know how much outflow would be necessary though, but a lot of fermenters aren't designed for very high pressure transfers. So I removed that uncertainty from my process.
     
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  8. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (165) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    I agree. However, 1-2 psi is more than enough to push beer from a carboy to keg. I've done it with 2 glass carboys now and one fast ferment. It is slightly dangerous but as long as you're paying attention, it's not an issue. Thanks for the clarification. OP, you're good to proceed.
     
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  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    But does it cause enough flow out of the keg vent to prevent O2 from entering? At some (low) point it doesn't, but I don't know what that point is. At some point it's not really a closed transfer, because an open vent is really just a hole.

    I think it's essentially a fluid dynamics problem. It would be fascinating to see some modelling of this if there any physicist/engineer BAs with a few minutes to spare.
     
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  10. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (165) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    I literally put my face and hand up to the gas in, (gas out in this case) and did feel a consistent pressure. Matter of fact, my transfers have been done at 3-5 psi.
     
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  11. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (165) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    I could certainly be mistaken here, but the only way I see this being possible is if the keg somehow created a vacuum.
     
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  12. drinkybanjo

    drinkybanjo Initiate (120) Sep 4, 2008 New Jersey

    Thanks for all of the replies. Once the beer has completed transfer from the fermentor to the keg I would close the release valve, seal with CO2, and then vent a couple of times.
     
    corbmoster likes this.
  13. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Did you buy a spindling valve or build your own? I have thought about using something like this for fermenting as well in lieu of an airlock.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I've done both. Here's one I built. I prefer this one, not because I put it together (it's not my design), but because it seems like a more robust design and is easier to adjust.
    [​IMG]
    The swivel nut (on the left end) connects to a corny type gas quick disconnect.

    Here's a link to the plans...
    http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2011/02/build-spunding-valve.html
     
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  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    It's not just that it's automatic. It's the adjustability feature that makes a PRV a Spunding.
     
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  17. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    ,

    Automatic to what you set (adjust) it to ...kinda like a temp controller, only for pressure :slight_smile:
     
  18. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    These are the exact plans I've looked at, thanks for the feedback.
     
  19. thatche2

    thatche2 Devotee (448) Nov 2, 2015 Georgia

    If you provide information for a model (e.g., diameter of the vent), I can run a CFD simulation.
     
  20. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I have one of those, and it works fine. But the ones that can be built according to these plans seem easier to adjust:
    http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2011/02/build-spunding-valve.html

    Oh man. I don't have a clue about where to get specs for a Cornelius keg lid (with the hole) or the pressure relief valve (that partially opens the hole). I'd be willing to send you an assembly if that would work. If it helps you decide whether that would likely be useful (and if you're not familiar with corny kegs), the lids look like this...
    [​IMG]
    And the PRV part which screws into the lid looks like this...
    [​IMG]
    The threads are near the top. The long narrow bit is surrounded by a spring.
     
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  22. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (95) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    Resurrecting this thread in case others are looking to build a spunding valve.
    (Underlined text are links)

    For the previously linked HomeBrewFinds spunding valve article, all the parts listed for Style 1 are still available via the links in the HBF article except the 1/4″ NPT Male x 1/4″ JIC Male. I found them at this page on ebay. As of this post there are seven available.
    I don’t know how much of a difference it makes for the application, but the one from ebay is plated steel and the one no longer available is carbon steel.

    If you’re not concerned with rigid construction, Styles 2, 3 and 4 in the HBF article use vinyl tubing to attach the QD to the Tee.
     
  23. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Close Xfers are for days you don't have enough other things to do. :grimacing:
     
  24. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (95) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    Could be....but probably less time consuming than a remote transfer. :stuck_out_tongue:
     
    #24 riptorn, Dec 4, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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