Coffee - Rye Stout

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by yinzer, Jul 6, 2012.

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  1. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    My first try with Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee & Rye. I'm just going for a Imp Stout w/coffe notes.


    Est Original Gravity: 1.100 SG
    Est Final Gravity: 1.025 SG
    Bitterness: 83.8 IBUs
    Est Color: 61.4 SRM
    Mash: 152~154 range

    14 lbs Fawcett Maris Otter (2.6 SRM) Grain 60.2 %
    2 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 8.6 %
    2 lbs Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee (115.0 SRM) Grain 8.6 %
    2 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 8.6 %
    1 lbs Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
    1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
    12.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3.2 %
    8.0 oz Simpsons Crystal 55 Maris Otter (55.0 SRM) Grain 2.2 %
    2.00 oz Magnum [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 50.5 IBUs
    1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 13.2 IBUs
    2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 0.0 IBUs
    1.0 pkg Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004) Yeast
     
  2. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Anyone?

    I made some changes. While researching I'm hard pressed to find a recipe where the roasted malts are greater than 10%. They seem to run 5-10%.

    The rye is because I had a Imp stout w/rye that I liked. I see where Vikeman said that around 10% that the rye becomes really noticeable. Since I don't remember that beer screaming "rye" I backed that down to 7%. Also I don't want it competing with the coffee.

    The flaked barley is for head retention.

    The Crystal is because I see it often in Imp Stouts. Maybe for some balance. I'm still going with the 152~154 mash.

    look better????

    14 lbs Fawcett Maris Otter (2.6 SRM) Grain 63.6 %
    2 lbs Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee (115.0 SRM) Grain 9.1 %
    1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6.8 %
    1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.5 %
    1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4.5 %
    12.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3.4 %
    12.0 oz Simpsons Crystal 55 Maris Otter (55.0 SRM) Grain 3.4 %
    1 lbs D-90 (90.0 SRM) Sugar 4.5 %
     
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Why the sugar?

    It seems like a lot of different grains, which I've heard can make it "muddy." I'm just repeating hearsay though, don't think I actually know a lot about this subject. :rolling_eyes:
     
  4. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    The sugar? Well sometimes you have to rattle the tress and see what falls out if you know what I mean.

    A lot of different grains? Which one(s) should I take out?

    I looked over Designing Great Beers and Brewing Classic Styles. As far a types of grain both support the roasted/crystal aspect. The flaked barley of course won't add flavor, just protein for head retention.

    That leaves the coffee and rye malts. I was going with the ~10% with the coffee based on Rebel Brewers site saying that you can go that high. But I've found some comments saying that 5% should be the max. And one comment from Denny Conn says to show restraint. So I'm cutting that in half. If needed I can always cold-steep coffee later. The rye I've partially explained. I think that it should give like Oats would. But I've also seen warnings of the rye/unmalted combo due to the beta-glucans. And rye is spicy which could be a competing flavor, but I'm think at that will be competing with the hops and not the malt. I tried to choose my hops based upon that assumption.

    So I've done a lot of research. I'm fairly confident in my choices, it's more the ratios.

    About the sugar? I might keep it in. While it's not Simplicity , it will dry out the end which might overly accentuate the rye and coffee. I'm trying to taste this in my mind and I might do the handful of grains test. With a 152~154 mash temp, some crystal, M.O. base and English yeast - a dry finish will help. But then again the roasted malts could supply that aspect.
     
  5. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well FWIW, I think it looks like you should just brew it then and see what happens. :sunglasses:

    I think you have thought this out pretty well, particularly the edited version, and perhaps just needed someone to convince yourself.

    Care to elaborate on your hops schedule, IBUs etc?
     
  6. Bonis

    Bonis Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2010 Ohio

    So you are mashing with coffee? I assume you are grinding it with your grains? I tried that in a coffee stout once and it ended up being a bit too bitter and astringent. I've heard cold steep is the way to go, but I've yet to try that method. It may be better since you are brewing an Imp stout, mine was only 6% abv. I think it may be a good idea to both mash and cold steep with coffee (that is, if you really want a strong coffee flavor).
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Ever tasted 'raw' flaked barley? There's a pretty strong grainy flavor and I think it can come through in the beer. (Not to say that your grain bill is overly complicated. Just mentioning that flaked barley is not really neutral flavorwise IMO.)
     
  8. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Thanks,

    No, haven't tasted it. I do think that I'm going to try the small grain bill/handful taste test. I'm not sure how well that works though.

    I only want it for head retention. Not that I normally have issues but I might split this batch and do some cold coffee bean steeping where I could be adding some oils.

    I do have some pre-gel wheat and oats. Would either of those be more neutral? I have a feeling that none of these are all that neutral. Since I'm just making a first run of this recipe the big question seems to be if the Kiln Coffee/Rye will work at all. Then if yes work on the ratio. Maybe it's best to sort that all out before I worry about appearances.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd say oats would probably be the 'blandest' of the three. (Though I haven't used raw wheat, so take it with a grain of salt.)
     
  10. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Well I made this:

    14 lbs Fawcett Maris Otter (2.6 SRM) Grain 65.2 %
    1 lbs Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee (115.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
    1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6.5 %
    1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
    1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
    12.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
    12.0 oz Simpsons Crystal 55 Maris Otter (55.0 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
    1 lbs D-90 (90.0 SRM) Sugar 4.5 %

    1.5 Magnum 60 min
    1.5 N Brewer 30 min
    2 EKG 15 min
    2 EKG 0.000 min

    2 WLP 004 2x starter

    mash 154~156

    pH adjusted. Flavor salts towards malt.

    1.092
    80.3 IBU
    now at 1.010? errrr???

    Not even two weeks old and it's definitely a big beer. Yeah I now know what rye tastes like but it seems to be working well. It is a bit abrasive but yet intriguing. All of the strong flavors can be identified so it holds my interest. The finish is dry with nice chocolate notes. Coffee aroma. But I'm worried about how it will age. I force carbonated a PET bottle so I'm not sure about my CO2 volumes while I taste. If the malt part drops out and the CO2 plays in a bit more I'll be screwed, cause I think the rye will be here to stay. But the oddest thing is that I made a very dark roasted coffee tincture, added a few drops and it seems to mellow out the bitterness at 3/4's of the way through. Interesting.
     
  11. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Im brewing up a coffe porter here in a few weeks looking forward to using Franco belges kiln coffee and haven't heard about other people using it... Thinking of doing like 10# Maris otter 1#kiln coffe 1/2# chocalate to keep my first porter recipe simple
     
  12. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California


    Sorry to post late, but I used to go by that rule of thumb, until I made a milk stout with ~20% roast grains that turned out incredibly good. I think some of it depends on your water, in addition to the astringency of the roast grains used, how long you'll age the beer before serving (Most of my RIS are a bit aggressive until about 2-4 months out) and the end product you're looking for.
     
  13. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    All carbed up and I'm very happy with it. I really think that my water adjustments helped. Currently all of the flavors are playing well together. No question that the coffee and rye flavors are strong, but I think that the unmalted barley thickens up the mouth-fell to support them and the sugar gives it a semi-dry finish. Time to start sharing it and see what others think.

    I'll play with adding the coffee tincture, but I don't think that it is needed.

    [​IMG]
     
    Mongrel likes this.
  14. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    Looks awesome! I've been playing with the idea of a big rye stout so I might use yours as a base and go from there if that's cool.
     
  15. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It does look damn good. :sunglasses:
     
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