Contemplating a Russian Imperial Stout

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by AngryPenguinBrewCo, May 12, 2014.

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  1. AngryPenguinBrewCo

    AngryPenguinBrewCo Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2014 New York

    I've been getting into higher gravity stouts recently and am trying to build a cellar but then I got the idea to brew my own. One technique I've heard of is brewing a lower gravity stout and then pitching the higher gravity stout on top of the former beer's yeast cake. I've brewed a lower gravity chocolate stout before, which got rave reviews. I'm trying to determine if this is a viable technique and if so I will brew the RIS on bottling day of the chocolate stout. Has anyone had any success or failure with this method? Any other tips on brewing a RIS? Never done a high gravity beer, also at this point I'm only set up for extract brewing, thanks!
     
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I did this. First batch ever was an extract Milk Stout. Second batch was the same recipe with brown sugar added and only 3.5 gallons instead of the original 5. Pitched onto the cake. The biggest issue other than the required yeast (a cake from smaller stout removes this issue) is fermentation temp control. If you have a way to get the beer temp down to the lower range for the yeast before pitching and keep it that way for 3-5 days, then a way to bump up the temp a few degrees each day then there shouldn't be any problem with pitching on the cake. If you can only get the wort down to 70-75*F post boil then you will have to find a way to get it down to the low 60s. Otherwise you will pitch it on a huge amount of hungry yeast that won't need much of a growth stage in the 70s and get lots of fusels and esters.
     
  3. AngryPenguinBrewCo

    AngryPenguinBrewCo Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2014 New York

    I have a spare fridge with a analog temperature controller and I keep a thermometer in there. So maybe I should brew, then throw the lid and airlock on and chill the wort for a day or so and rack onto the yeast cake later? Is it ok to chill the wort for a couple days or do I significantly increase the risk infection this way? I contemplated fermenting in the fridge anyway to keep the temp down, even if I maintain a temp this low should I still be concerned about blowoff with a beer this big? After I rack the first beer into a bottling bucket do I do anything with the yeast cake such as aerating or stirring, or do I just rack the new wort right on top? And do I need to pitch additional fresh yeast of the same strain? Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to reason this out. Do you think it would be better to attempt to wash the yeast from the chocolate stout and just create a starter?
     
  4. HopNuggets

    HopNuggets Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2009 Connecticut

    You could just do the appropriate starter so you don't have a huge yeast cake at the bottom that you have to work around while transferring to secondary. I did a 2L starter and stepped up with another 2L starter for my Imperial Stout. You could us the yeast cake of a beer that just transferred off of it but if you have any off flavors in that yeast from the previous fermentation they'll most likely carry over. So if you're comfortable with your brewing then go ahead but there is just another variable for something to go wrong.
     
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  5. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    If you can get it down to the low 60s you should be fine. If you brew on Saturday morning, get it down to the 70s, transfer to your fermentor, then put it in the fridge and finish the temp drop (should only be a few hours tops). Then rack your beer to bottling bucket. You can either swirl up the cake and pitch it into the wort or re-rack the wort out of the fridge vessel onto the cake.

    Yes. You can either use a 6.5 gallon bucket (or bigger), or split it into 2 carboys, or do a blow off and watch it.

    Not really, but still a good idea. You would need oxygen for a beer this size for yeast growth, but if you pitch onto a cake you should have enough yeast to ferment w/o much extra growth. Still a good idea to at least splash it around as much as possible when racking in there to get some O2 dissolved though.

    Nope

    Nope.
     
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  6. AngryPenguinBrewCo

    AngryPenguinBrewCo Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2014 New York

    Awesome, thanks for the info!
     
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  7. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    There is nothing wrong with pitching a Imperial Stout on your yeast cake. There is also no reason to change your fermentation temps. I ferment most ales at 66 degrees. Good luck.
     
  8. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    I've never done this with a big stout, but I do it with high OG lagers pretty regularly. It's a good technique, saves money, and I've not experienced any downside.

    If I'm making something like a 1.082 doppelbock, I'd need to make something like a 4-liter starter, even using two vials of yeast: almost the equivalent of a 5-gal batch of beer. Rather than do that, I'll make a helles or a pils, and when I transfer that beer to a cornie for lagering, I'll drop the doppelbock wort onto the yeast cake. Works great.

    I can think of a few potential drawbacks to be aware of: one is that if you're looking for a significant flavor contribution from the yeast, I would think that you're going to get relatively few esters with this method, since you're likely to be overpitching. Also, you want the first beer to be compatible in style to the second beer: ie, if you do a much darker or hoppier beer and then drop a lighter or less hoppy beer on the cake, you might get some unwanted carry over in color or bitterness.
     
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