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Controversial Beer Opinions Thread

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Kraz, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. TurkeysDrinkBeer

    TurkeysDrinkBeer Initiate (47) Sep 8, 2018 Virginia

    I was one of those posts a few days ago. Sight & Mind BA Barleywine from Bottle Logic (13.7%). I was just getting off work from the graveyard shift though. Only other time I would crack open a double digit abv beer early in the morning would be if I were on vacation otherwise I'll wait until at least lunch time :wink:
  2. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,514) Mar 12, 2009 New York

    According to one gripe group, our country is plagued by one style of beer making other, once abundant, styles unavailable. This is because craft beer drinkers today are too narrow minded, and stick to only one or two styles.

    Or, according to different complainers, beer drinkers today demand breweries constantly switch up brands and styles. This is because craft beer drinkers today have no brand or style loyalty like folks had in the past.

    Guess complainers gonna gripe is my (not so) controversial opinion for today
    GuyFawkes, dcotom, beergoot and 3 others like this.
  3. rightcoast7

    rightcoast7 Disciple (304) Apr 2, 2011 Maine

    If I have one gripe about the current variety of beer available to me, it’s that there are far more awesome sounding beers available in too wide a variety of styles for me to drink everything I’d like to. It’s an awful problem to have.
  4. JrGtr

    JrGtr Disciple (376) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    Can't disagree there - every time I go into the store there's another half-dozen new breweries on the shelf I haven't even heard of. So of course I have to check to see if they're another made-up label from BMC or something...
    It's such a bad problem to have - but I have to think there will be a weeding out at some point - the level of average is shifting up, and those that are merely 'average' now will be on the wrong side eventually. I can't imagine that all those breweries opening up every day are going to make it in the long term.
  5. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Poo-Bah (1,643) Sep 15, 2014 New York

    I have very little to no interest in trading for beer now. I probably never will unless there's something I absolutely want to try.
    The beer scenes are good enough nearly everywhere in the country now that I can easily find great examples of nearly every style.
    Not to mention that I prefer to support local breweries and local distributors, anyway.
    I don't have the FOMO for every beer across the country. I don't feel the need to try every NEIPA and BBAIS in the world when I can find dozens of them in my local supermarkets, beer stores, and breweries.

    I've had a few IPAs with lactose that were great, but by and large I find it to be an entirely unnecessary ingredient that adds nothing desirable to the beer. And I still think it's mostly just acceptable in milk stouts.
  6. Ceddd99

    Ceddd99 Initiate (122) May 14, 2018 Michigan

    What about Belgian ales, dopplebocks, barelywines, scotch ales, etc? Aren't these old styles that were traditionally more than 6%?
  7. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,416) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    I was referring to the early period of "beer appreciation" in the US at the dawn of the "Craft Era" mid-1970 -mid-1980s - just not a lot of high ABV beers brewed in the US at the time. The highest ABV beers sampled at the 1982 GABF were Falstaff's Ballantine India Pale Ale at "between 6 and 7 percent by volume" and Matt's malt-liquor-ish Maximus Super at 6.6 ABV. M. Jackson's first US ed. Pocket Guide to Beer [1982] noted that Ballantine IPA and Olde English 800 were the highest alcohol beers brewed in the US - both listed at "6.0% w; 7.5% v". (Anchor was very infrequently brewing Old Foghorn by the mid-70s, but it had a limited in-state market, apparently).

    Note that the two sources above (Jackson and GABF) had the ABV for Ballantine IPA different. That's the problem discussing alcohol content for beers in the US from that period, since listing the ABV on the label was still prohibited, and the sources varied greatly (and, sometimes, the abv did also). Further, some old reference sources don't specify "by volume" or "by weight" and others are actually noted in proof or Plato. Like these quotes:
    And many of the foreign beer styles with higher alcoholic content weren't exported or, if so, weren't commonly available in the US (see this list of maximum ABV laws in the US in the 1970s, for instance). Into the 1970s and '80s, the strongest imported beers typically mentioned were Kulminator 28 (12.4%) and Thomas Hardy's Ale (11.2%) with Samichlaus the strongest lager at 11.2%.

    So, yeah, they were around (in some places) but I think saying "few beers were over 5-6% abv" is accurate.
    LuskusDelph, zid, beertunes and 4 others like this.
  8. Ceddd99

    Ceddd99 Initiate (122) May 14, 2018 Michigan

    Thanks for clarifying. Why was it illegal to list abv on the label? It seems like the opposite would make more sense.
    meefmoff and zid like this.
  9. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,416) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey


    "Alcoholic content is prohibited from being stated in the case of malt beverages. Malt beverages should not be sold on the basis of alcoholic content. The variation of alcoholic content has little consumer importance and the industry recognizes that attempts to sell beer and other malt beverages on the basis of alcoholic content are attempts to take advantage of the ignorance of the consumer and of the psychology created by prohibition experiences.

    "Legitimate members of the industry have suffered seriously from unfair competition resulting from labeling and advertising that uses such terms as
    "strong", "extra strength”, "high-test", "high proof ", "prewar strength", "14 percent original extract", and from brand names or other statements or references which include conspicuous numerals or symbols intending to suggest that the numerals or symbols represent the alcoholic content. Usually such representations of excess alcoholic content are false, but irrespective of their falsity, their abuse has grown to such an extent since repeal that the prohibition of all such statements is in the interest of the consumer and the promotion of fair competition."
    LuskusDelph, meefmoff, zid and 2 others like this.
  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,416) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    Contrary to popular belief (as noted in the second paragraph above) the brewing industry in general, fresh off of Prohibition (and still wanting to distinguish their industry from wine and spirits) was for the regulation, as illustrated by this quote from the chairman of the Master Brewers Assoc. of America at the time, Walter Sippel:
    Part of that was also due to the brewing technology of the time. Herbert Schwarz, grandson of Anton Schwarz, and head of the United States Brewers Academy was quoted in 1932 (as the new laws to amend the Volstead Act and eventually Repeal Prohibition were being considered):
    The prohibition of labeling of alcohol content for beer at the Federal level didn't end until a Coors lawsuit in the 1980-90s, which went all the way to the SCOTUS. Even today, it is permitted (where legal at the state level) but not mandated.

    §7.26 Alcoholic content [suspended as of April 19, 1993; see §7.71].
    (a) The alcoholic content and the percentage and quantity of the original extract shall not be stated unless required by State law.
    §7.71 Alcoholic content.
    (a) General. Alcoholic content and the percentage and quantity of the original gravity or extract may be stated on a label unless prohibited by State law.
  11. Ceddd99

    Ceddd99 Initiate (122) May 14, 2018 Michigan

    Interesting, thanks for the info. I would have never have expected that. About lager containing 7% or more, again I would like to ask about German beer. Weren't the Germans brewing some strong lagers already at that time? And what about ice beer? Even if your yeast only allowed you to brew a lager up to 5 or 6 percent, that could still be increased through freezing. I read the Germans were brewing eisbocks as early as 1890.
  12. Ahonky

    Ahonky Initiate (144) Feb 13, 2018 New York

    This is not controversial, just something I hate hearing/reading

    "________ is a solid brown"

    I know dropping the "ale" seems innocent enough, but it sounds gross, and why is "solid" always the choice term for bigging up a brown ale?
  13. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Champion (804) Apr 21, 2014 Ontario (Canada)

    This reminds me of one of my favourites:

    “I’m going to be running in a 5K race to raise money for cancer.”
  14. JrGtr

    JrGtr Disciple (376) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    Because people (beer geeks) don't see brown ales as "mind-blowing;" that terminology is only saved for triple NEIPAs these days. What may be an exemplary brown ale is still seen as boring or underwhelming compared to the latest and greatest IPA or BBA Stout.
    Amendm likes this.
  15. stevepat

    stevepat Devotee (498) Mar 12, 2013 California

    ya solid is all a brown ale can really aspire to these days. It's the pinnacle. A brown ale rated a 4! thing must be freaking world class. Although probably just BBA and DDH...
    FatBoyGotSwagger likes this.
  16. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,185) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    but we are living in the golden age!! :wink:
    stevepat likes this.
  17. Ahonky

    Ahonky Initiate (144) Feb 13, 2018 New York

    You missed my point. This wasn't a "why can't people appreciate the subtle nuances of a brown ale" rant....it was why must they always say "solid brown"...which to me sounds like taking a solid shit. For whatever reason, people like saying "solid brown"...and it makes me wince
  18. rozzom

    rozzom Crusader (783) Jan 22, 2011 New York

    I also hate people referring to IPA/DIPA/APA etc as "hops"
  19. stevepat

    stevepat Devotee (498) Mar 12, 2013 California

    It's better than a watery brown. Maybe the ideal could be a creamy brown or a smooth brown:grin:
    meefmoff, GuyFawkes, Ahonky and 3 others like this.

    DISKORD Aspirant (266) Feb 28, 2017 North Carolina

    Me too.
    rozzom likes this.
  21. rgordon

    rgordon Champion (894) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Kinda like "he/she's articulate" or "she's not shrill" meant possibly to be complimentary.
  22. JBogan

    JBogan Champion (816) Jul 15, 2007 California

    Or a solid brown with chewy mouthfeel. :poop:
    stevepat likes this.
  23. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,285) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    ...and you know this how? :grimacing:
  24. JBogan

    JBogan Champion (816) Jul 15, 2007 California

    He was talking about people using descriptors such as "solid brown" in regards to an ale or watery brown. I was saying that it's also better than calling it a solid brown beer with a chewy mouthfeel. :wink:
    rgordon and bbtkd like this.
  25. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Disciple (363) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado

    just devil's advocating here, but maybe there's something about a brown that goes with "solidness". Something midwestern, Ohio-ish, Taft-Republican, Sherwood Anderson, brown suit/brown belt/brown shoes, middle-of-the-road, you know, solid.

    Across the pond, something very "North of England." You just know they drink brown ales--solid brown ales--at Downton Abbey.

    I mean, you want a flighty, frivolous, fashion-conscious, coastal brown ale? A "le dernier cri" sort of brown ale? I think not.

    You want a solid brown ale. You know you do.
    meefmoff, rozzom, HopsDubosc and 7 others like this.
  26. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,405) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    I think you know all of this.

    EKU 28 refers to the Original Gravity in degrees Plato, or 28% sugar content. So that 28 degrees Plato is confused with % alcohol.
    cavedave likes this.
  27. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,416) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    Yup, and noted it as well, just before that quote about the beer from "Kulmback, West Germany":
    ....but, yeah, probably should have worded it better and/or explained what the Plato scale measures.:grin:
    hopfenunmaltz likes this.
  28. rgordon

    rgordon Champion (894) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Well said. Whenever I see Natty Greene's Old Town Brown I buy it. It is a calming, satisfying, and very food friendly beer.
  29. bleakies

    bleakies Disciple (347) Apr 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    A pal left a beer in my fridge last week, one of the Lawson's Super Session varieties, and I just popped it and poured it and only then did I think, Wait: when was this canned? Before sampling I looked at the bottom of the can: October twentysomething, 2018. Whoops, we've got a hoppy, smallish beer here that's five months old...

    ...but it's not bad at all! I don't know if it's the can allowing less oxidation than a bottle might or if Lawson's is just super estupendo or what, but this brew has stood up to the passage of time much better than I have myself. Kudos.
  30. stevepat

    stevepat Devotee (498) Mar 12, 2013 California

    I've been drinking on a 15 pack of mosaic promise from founders that I got for 13 bucks because it was 6 months old. And while it's not what it is fresh it's still a super tasty beer. Freshness it's important but this idea that hippy beers made by serious pros will become garbage at 90 days is pretty silly
    rgordon and LuskusDelph like this.
  31. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,514) Mar 12, 2009 New York

    I def. agree that some hoppy beers don't turn to garbage with some age (though more than 4 months is REALLY pushing it). If ever I am forced to try to save a few bucks on my hoppy beer purchases I think I will not mind having to drink beer that isn't garbage, and will not greatly miss beer that is fresh and wonderful.
    nc41 likes this.
  32. BeardedWalrus

    BeardedWalrus Aspirant (223) Jun 5, 2018 North Carolina

    Not sure if this qualifies as controversial, bit I only grudgingly tolerate floaties. Yes it's a hazard of my favorite beer styles, but its always irritating seeing yeast bits or sediment in my glass.
    meefmoff likes this.
  33. BeastOfTheNortheast

    BeastOfTheNortheast Disciple (327) Dec 26, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I want EvenMoreJesus back. Haven't seen him lately, so assuming he got banned.
    stevepat likes this.
  34. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,285) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    I concur on floaties. Check out this Avery Raspberry Truffale I had recently...those are chunks of raspberry, and the picture was taken after I drank some of them. Ended up taking them out.

    BeardedWalrus and cavedave like this.
  35. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,709) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina

    I agree here, but they’re few and far between though. But my first trip to Vt was in May, we went to the beach in July, so those beers were right at 3 1/2 months old in my possession, Alchemist released them at two weeks old. They were as good in July as they were at purchase, I’d dare anyone to date them based on taste. I think the Hop itself holds a big part of the key to longevity, some hops age better than others. Just my opinion.
  36. beer_beer

    beer_beer Aspirant (200) Feb 13, 2018 Finland

  37. Claude-Irishman

    Claude-Irishman Zealot (579) Jun 4, 2015 New Jersey

    Looks like someone spunked in your brew- Pretty disgusting
  38. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Meyvn (1,277) Oct 4, 2017 Germany

  39. montman

    montman Disciple (381) Mar 10, 2009 Virginia

    Just read a thread where a farily new user to the site posted like 6-7 times on one page, so....maybe he is back. :stuck_out_tongue:
  40. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,285) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    Hope not, because I ate some. :nauseated_face: It was clearly sliced raspberry, but didn't have much flavor left in it. Not sure why they wouldn't have filtered it. I'd had one bottle a few months ago and no issue. Maybe this bottle was bottom of the barrel. I have several bottles left and will filter them.