Controversial Beer Opinions Thread

Keep fightin' the good fight, man. I predict the whole Festbier vs. Märzen thing will take just as long to sort itself out as it will for people to start pronouncing it "Mare-tsen" not "Mars-en."

 

I really don't know why you are replying to my comment with the usual speech, but since you quoted me I feel like I should respond.

If there are beers with flavors historically associated with beer and then beers designed to taste like fruits, which category would you put kriek in? You have a point but the way you frame it plays right into both arguments that @cavedave is making above. Are you two locked in an eternal struggle with each other despite who you two are quoting?

Your statement: "People who particularly enjoy the flavors historically associated with beer tend to dislike Budweiser for its inadequacy as an imparter of those flavors" - doesn't really make sense. Are you saying that fans of lambic and Rauchbier aren't satisfied with Bud? Who are these people you speak of? Beer-loving Budweiser buyers who buy stuff they dislike? Or are you really just talking about 21st century west coast IPA fans?

Regarding my post that you quoted, Snow is the best selling beer in the world, but it's only sold in China. Budweiser is number two, so it's probably the most consumed beer around the world when factoring in area. The rest of the top ten are pale lagers. If you polled people around the world what beer is, the overwhelming majority of results would be something similar to Bud. Not the spectrum that is Rauchbier, kriek, Budweiser, Sculpin, Julius despite the fact that beer can be all of those things... and is all of those things to a small group of people. Heck, not even everyone on BeerAdvocate thinks that beer is all of those things.

 

Nothing about beer will ever be sorted out.

 

I found that counterintuitive and puzzling but I thought it might be related to the short but intense growing season in Alaska. Whatever thanks for the tutorial of the history of Oktoberfests.

 

lol.

 

That cultural cachet has been the bane of my existence for the longest time.

 

I replied to you to address your Budweiser example. Everything else in my post was aimed at cavedave's latest masterwork, which you were quoting.

I'd say most lambics don't taste overwhelmingly of the fruit with which they may be flavored and in fact are quite challenging to palates with inaccessible flavors, far from the familiar-for-the-sake-of-familiar flavors that are so prevalent today. Do people flock to krieks first and foremost for the taste of cherry? I doubt it. That said, that may indeed be the case for the popular sweeter examples such as Lindemans. I'm sure there have been beers heavy in various flavoring adjuncts for hundreds or thousands of years, but that doesn't mean the flavors of those beers were flavors typically associated with beer, then or now.

Yes, I'm effectively saying the option I've put in bold. My point is that 1) Budweiser does indeed "taste like beer," as is its widespread reputation but 2) those classic beer flavors in Budweiser aren't strong enough to appeal to many beer connoisseurs. In contrast, the primary (though usually not sole) flavors in many of today's popular beers don't "taste like beer" at all, much as this product, while technically hummus, very intentionally doesn't "taste like hummus" and instead tastes like brownie batter.

Snow is a brewing company and family of brands. Only if you compare the collective of Snow brands to individual brands of other companies does Snow sell the most. My understanding is that Budweiser and Bud Light combined outsell the various Snow beers in total.

I'm agreeing with you and the masses that Budweiser tastes like beer. I'm saying that, to the extent that enthusiasts for beer-related flavors tend to dislike Bud, it's because those beer flavors in Bud, while present and not covered up by other flavors, are unsatisfyingly weak. It "tastes like beer" of a specific (most notably pale malt and lager yeast) and bland sort. Most craft beers, at least until recently, "tasted like beer," within the wide and highly diverse set of flavors historically associated with beer, but in a much stronger way.

Do you deny the greater respect and social acclaim given to beer compared to, say, malternatives and wine coolers that so many today resemble in flavor? Try non-ironically busting out a Zima or a Bartles & Jaymes at a social gathering. I bet you'll get some gentle ribbing or notice some quiet scoffing in a way that would never happen if you popped open a Tree House "IPA" or a J. Wakefield Florida weisse. Indeed, you'd surely experience various gestures of approval for the latter two if that gathering included beer geeks. It's naive to think that the contemporary cultural cachet of craft beer isn't a significant driver of the current boom.

 

That's their wild-card beer - the same beer they serve anyone asking for a beer style they don't currently have.

 

That's awesome that this thread is still going.

On a different note, "millennials" have a greater knowledge about beer than the "get off my lawn" crowd.

 

I think you got the wrong pour.

 

Spaten and Bayern (from Montana) also fall into that dunkel/cola range, but the flavor is definitely on the Oktoberfest spectrum. I tend to think of those kinds of recipes as holdovers from another "age".

 

Hate to quote you, but of course I will, though not going to unignore the likely novel that resulted in reply above in which you felt you needed to tag me. I do see the expression used demeaningly and fairly regularly to describe folks by other folks on this and other beer pages. I agree with all your points, but I don't think the folks who use the expression have Bud in mind when they use the expression, nor any clear idea or style at all for that matter, and I think your obvious truth about what folks would think beer tastes like if they were asked includes a group made up almost entirely of folks who don't use the expression or consider the idea at all. Which leaves us with a paradox. My point that there is no real "beer taste", and that all beer tastes like beer, was supposed to be obvious, but as usual both trees and forest got swallowed in examination of my semantic content, and my poor ability to express the point.

 

Millennials might have good knowledge, but the "get the hell off my lawn" crowd has experience gained by the mistakes the kiddies haven't made yet

 

Here's one: Modern Times is not that good.

Also, Russian River IPAs, including Pliny, are quite overrated.

 

we need more lagers

 

I can't get on board with your first one. MT is pretty good. But I can totally get behind your second. Russian River is a great brewery, but that is not because of their hops game and Pliny the Elder is not that good of a beer

 

Disagree. I have an older brother and I learned what not to do from the mistakes he made.

(There's supposed to be a smiley face too, but it won't post).

 

See - that's exactly what I mean!

 

I am pretty mehed by most MT stuff. I think they do some good beer, for sure, but they are very inconsistent, and most of the stuff that hits the shelves is plain meh.

 

Look, whatever was playing on the radio when I had my first sexual experience is real music and everything that came afterwards is just something made up by dumb kids who don't know any better.