Controversial Beer Opinions Thread

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Kraz, Feb 14, 2018.

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  1. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    Lagers, meh.

    Code dating implies that you need a decoder. Dates need to be standard and human readable without a secret decoder ring or searching the interwebs for the one person that knows how to interpret it. And although dates are important to IPA drinkers, I - as a dark-ale fan - don't care much about bottle dating and never check them.

    Aging can improve some non-brett beers, but it is subjective. Though I like some coffee stouts fresh, other beers where they've added coffee as only one of many add-junks get better when aging has faded the coffee and allowed the other flavors to come forward IMHO. Two examples are Founders CBS and Prairie Pirate Noir, which in my opinion are much better with 6 months age to take the edge off the coffee. But as you say aging doesn't always improve beer.

    Drink what you like, but keep your options open and informed by trying all the styles you can.

    Your perception is wrong in regards to lagers!

    We agree on the independent beer opinion. There are some great bears that didn't turn not-great just by selling out to big-beer. If you are saying you're a fan of BMC macro - I'll pass.
     
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  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,089) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    No it doesn't. Take for example this explanation of Sierra Nevada's 12 pack Date Code. Easily understandable "packaged on" date, but their "code" includes other info, as well.
    [​IMG]

    Other brewers' code also include items like production line, Tax ID, SKU #, etc.

    I'd also say that "day of year" (aka "Julian") dating is pretty standard throughout numerous industries (I've worked for at least 3 non-brewing Fortune 500 companies that routinely used it) - and doesn't take a whole lot of "math" to figure out.

    Fresh beer is fresh beer, regardless of the color of the malt and resulting beer or the amount of hops used. I want to buy and drink fresh beer, even one that is a "dark" beer and/or a low IBU one. The thought that only hop flavor/aroma is affected as a beer goes past it's prime due to age or improper storage is an erroneous one.
     
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  3. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,977) Mar 12, 2009 New York
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    Or, alternatively, you are wrong because 80% of the world's beer drinkers disagree with you. :grin:
     
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  4. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    What I was saying regarding "date codes" is that calling it a code implies that some conversion or interpretation is required. Beer dates should not be encoded, they should be obvious like in your example - I would not call that a code since it spells it right out.

    What I was saying in regards to low-IBU dark ales taking age better is that since they don't depend as much on hops for flavor, the base beer won't change as much with age as a hoppy beer would, then you are left with the add-junk changing, and the effects of that are subjective.
     
  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,089) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    But Sierra Nevada, the rest of the brewing and the beer marketing industries and most consumer do ...

    "As much"? - I'd say "differently" - perhaps. But according to the industry standard Dalgliesh graph there are many aspects of beer flavor other than hop flavor/aroma affected by time:
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,430) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
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    Decoding date codes is not a problem for me so long as I can find the published formula. What I do find irritating is print so small or obscurely located or ink color that fades into the label. Sure, I can carry a magnifying glass and key chain flashlight but such hard to read info is deceptive and disrespectful of the customer.
     
  7. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (7,662) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    I'm not a freshness nerd (very rarely check dates), so all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over codes is somewhat amusing to me. I'd imagine some of the larger breweries are 24 hour a day businesses. A beer packaged at 12:01am would have the same date as one packaged at 11:59pm. Your beer could be a whole day older!

    There are other reasons for using codes instead of straight dating: in case of an issue, the brewery can narrow down the amount product subject to a potential recall. Beer might be produced at more than one facility. There may be more than one packaging line. There maybe multiple shifts of employees, working different days. None of these are addressed by simple dating.
     
  8. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    Perhaps part of the problem is calling them codes, somehow making it OK for some brewers to invent their own code. Packaging date is my vote, which counts for nothing.

    Regarding IPAs though, the hops do matter more since that's the prevalent flavor that seems to be the main characteristic that IPA fans expect. When the IPA hop bitterness fades relatively quickly it will be more notable and disappointing than in a dark ale with other flavors often more prevalent than the hops, so that fading hop bitterness is not noticed as much.

    Your chart explains a lot regarding my own preferences; I'm not a fan of hop or coffee bitterness, and when the bitterness fades then the sweet flavors come to the forefront. I dig that, particularly in the case of rum, and who wouldn't want a case of rum. Cardboard not so much, but depends on the type of cardboard.
     
  9. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,089) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    I'm not particularly arguing against that (although "hop fade" from excessive time on the shelf is just as disappointing in pilsners, pale ales, dark beers, etc.) - but that's not what you claimed in the post I first quoted and commented on. It was this:

    And I said that fresh beer is better and stale beer, regardless of style, is - for me at least - a beer I'll pass on after checking the date code.
     
  10. j111

    j111 Initiate (45) Jan 20, 2016 Canada
    Deactivated

    I like cheap beer, lots of high rated beers on the site ends up tasting like shit to me. I'm first a liquor guy over beer, so maybe thats why. Either way cheap beer does it for me, outside of cheap beer Saporo does it
     
  11. Dtrain22

    Dtrain22 Initiate (60) Nov 2, 2017 North Carolina
    Trader

    I agree more or less. It does suck, the timing. When I have friends and family that are still displaced and not heard from, but you nailed it, it’s not called “hurricane” Florence and it’s a beer that’s been in rotation and from a very thoughtful and reputable brewery. Just struck that sore nerve and I needed to vent, thanks for your input.
     
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  12. jamesroses

    jamesroses Disciple (336) Nov 8, 2015 Argentina

    Yes, you're right. The ID and credit card requirement is OK. The 4 limit bottle maybe too, but I think they could produce more to reach more people and avoid those limits, although I don't know what style of beer it is.

    Anyway, I was thinking in general about current beer culture, as you said. Cheers
     
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  13. mambossa

    mambossa Aspirant (247) Jun 30, 2015 Ohio

    Whenever I read Tired Hands’ “tasting notes” on their Instagram posts, I want to fucking choke one of those idiots out.
     
  14. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (3,288) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

  15. thedaveofbeer

    thedaveofbeer Aspirant (253) Mar 25, 2016 Massachusetts
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    only one?
     
  16. crankshaft

    crankshaft Initiate (15) Sep 20, 2018 New York

    Who hurt you?
     
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  17. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (1,543) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    I've wondered about this since I heard it was listed as a style of beer on here. I am only familiar with kvass as a lactofermented beet drink. I wonder if there aren't two different kvasses out there...
     
  18. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Yes, there are two, lacto-fermented and yeast-fermented. It’s the yeast that produce alcohol. It’s the latter Kvass listed on here as being “beer-like.” Problem is how much alcohol is needed for it to be counted as “beer.” Some say there’s not enough in Kvass for it to be counted, others say there is.
     
    #3338 drtth, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  19. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    Having had it, I would agree, and so do Russians - according to the owner of the local Russian grocery where I went to buy it. I asked if they had beer and he said no, then I spotted it on a shelf. He said Russians don't consider it a beer due to the extremely low ABV, which is so low it is given to Russian kids, and in the US it is not classified as alcoholic. I thought it tasted like tea, and I drain-poured most of the 2-liter bottle after drinking just enough to review it and check off that style. Apparently some versions of it are fermented slightly, so someone somewhere decided it's beer. Another style we can eliminate, has my vote.
     
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  20. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (3,288) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    I really don't think that there is such a clean-cut distinction when it comes to Kvass. I've had three of them now and they all contained both lactic acid and yeast, yet none of them had an alcohol content listed on the bottles. From my understanding, this is because drinks with less than 1.5% ABV are not considered alcoholic drinks in Russia. Typically, Kvass has 0.5-1.4% ABV.

    I'm sure that Kvass comes in different forms, I just think that the lines are a lot more blurred and that none of them could really rightly be considered beer.
     
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  21. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Is there alcohol in sauerkraut? Beet Kvass often uses the juice from sauerkraut.
     
    #3341 drtth, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  22. papposilenus

    papposilenus Meyvn (1,303) Jun 21, 2014 New Hampshire

    You have to wonder, whose genius idea was that?
     
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  23. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
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    There are definitely styles of beer outside of those with Brettanomyces that can benefit from extended aging. They are simply fewer and farther between than most people care to realize.
     
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  24. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
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    But what about Imperial Kvass? :wink:

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    What about it?

    Well it is yeast-fermented (rather than solely lacto-fermented) and the ABV (0.5%) is so low that most folks do not consider it to be beer.
     
  26. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    You took my corny joke too seriously, brah.
     
  27. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Any you missed mine entirely. (Hmm, guess I needed an emoticon....)
     
  28. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (7,662) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    Well, NA beers are listed as a style here.....
     
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  29. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    Another that could go!
     
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  30. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Initiate (129) Mar 16, 2018 District of Columbia

    Green bottles and slight skunking from it, if done correctly, can enhance the flavor of some beers such as Pilsners, like Trumer or Jever.
     
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  31. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,430) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
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    Speaking for myself I'll leave the skunk in the bottle.
     
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  32. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (10,426) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    If skunking improves a beer, I'm not drinking that beer at all.
     
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  33. Scott17Taylor

    Scott17Taylor Poo-Bah (1,801) Oct 28, 2013 Iowa
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    Beet kvass I agree completely. When it’s made with fermenting rye bread I can see it being considered beer. I honestly don’t really care whether or not it’s listed but if it’s fermented grain I don’t have a problem counting it.
     
  34. Donovanj

    Donovanj Initiate (78) Mar 21, 2018 Georgia

    I guess something has to improve the flavor of pils!

    jk!
     
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  35. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,089) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    How is it "done correctly" ? Since green bottled beers are typically packed like all other bottled beer in closed cases, the beer only becomes light-struck at the retail level. Do the retailers use a light meter and a timer to judge how long the beers are exposed to "correct" amount of day or florescent light?
     
  36. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Savant (928) Nov 23, 2017 California
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    I've yet to experience truly top quality skunking.
     
  37. TurkeysDrinkBeer

    TurkeysDrinkBeer Initiate (93) Sep 8, 2018 Virginia
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    Benchtop Brewing in Norfolk, VA makes an award winning Beet Kvass called Trial of Dmitri, it comes in at 4.1% abv and is extremely refreshing. very beet forward though of course
     
  38. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
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    Kudos for bringing the controversy, but you're definitely wrong. Just because Jester King was purposefully doing this doesn't make it a good thing. When packaging faults and off-flavors become sought after or normal, it's time to stop drinking that beer.
     
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  39. Ahonky

    Ahonky Initiate (0) Feb 13, 2018 New York

    Never had a bad Trumer or Jever.

    A little skunk doesn't bother me.
     
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  40. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    But it's not something that you look for, is it?
     
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