Correct freshness question for bartenders

It's not a bad question, it's just that it will be rare that the stars will align in your favor. What I mean by that is that:
1. The bartender needs to have or get that information. Will he/she have it? Highly unlikely. Will he/she be able to get it? Maybe.
2. Unfortunately, not all kegs are dated. This is a sad fact but true. In my experience, I would say it's about 75%, which doesn't seem too bad but why can't it just be all the time? Maybe one day. Usually there is a date on the label/tag or on the cap or even sometimes stamped on the keg itself.

I would hope that any respectable bar would at least make an effort to find out for you but I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't accept kegs from my distributors that are out of date or undated (unless I know its fresh, like limited releases or seasonals). And I would be more than happy to give that information out to any of my customers.

 

Not sure about this part. I think your intent is solid, but I don't know if increasing the "arms race" about freshness would be beneficial to most bars. They don't have complete control of shipping/deliveries etc. so they may not get things "as fresh" as they would like and it's not their fault. If a distributor takes 3 weeks to get something in/delivered, and another week for it to be put on, that's a month old already and seeing that on a board is really going to initiate some confirmation bias in a large portion of the patrons.

If you put more than one keg of comparable "fresh is best" beer on and one is 5 days "fresher" than the other, than the older keg is just going to sit, and become older and older, while the other keg is more quickly drained because it's "better".

I'm all for getting as much information as possible when I'm buying beer. But if I'm a bar owner, I'm as interested in making $ as I am in providing complete transparency. Sometimes the customer isn't always right.

 

Just ask for a sample. It answers all of these questions at the same time:

Is this beer fresh?
Is this tap line dirty?
Is this beer carbonated to my liking?
Is the temperature of this beer to my liking?
Is the nose on this beer to my liking?
Is this beer worth me buying?

One sip, all answers.

The question "Is this beer as fresh as it's supposed to be?" is irrelevant. As freshness is only important with beer it comes to the desire to consume it, therefore the only factor that matters when it comes to consumption of beer is the taste, which a sample would have already given you.

 

This. All of this.

 

i used to bartend at one of the top beer bars in the country and i would get this question once in a blue moon. i think no one asks because it is annoying. even though we had a direct draw system and the kegs were all behind me and i could easily check unlike other places, i think its safe to assume that we are taking the time to serve you a quality beer and you shoudn't have to worry!

nothing wrong with trying a beer first and making a decision from there using your knowledge!

 

Build a relationship with the staff. I have a handful of bars where I know the bartenders and servers. If I am traveling and find a beer you can't get in Minnesota, I will pick a few up and hand them out to the bartenders or servers. If they have something I haven't had they will give me samples and I can ask them any questions I want about kegs, beer lines, what is new and fresh, various distributors and how they treat their beer and if my question is a pain they will tell me. Just be nice to people and they are usually nice back. If they aren't find different people. If you want super fresh beer go to the brewery.

 

I can't get a sample in a bottle shop before making a purchase, so I'd argue that dates are more important there.

Again, isn't that the purpose of asking for a sample? That way, you can decide whether it tastes stale or not.

 

And nowhere did I say it was. As people have suggested in this thread, who gets the ultimate say what "fresh" is? The owner, the brewer or the patron? I have my own preconceived notions when I walk into a store or a bar, but I'm self-aware enough to realize that I'm probably being too uptight about things sometimes. I also realize that If I go into a store and see something that's a month old and pass (and wish that it was fresher) when I go back in 3 weeks later, it's still there and now even older.

What is complete transparency in a bar? They let you taste it. I'd rather be able to open a X-week old beer at a bottle shop and see how it's tasting than have to make a completely arbitrary (and uninformed) decision about whether it's "good". The more worked up people get about provenance, the more "old" beer is going to sit on shelves/kegs etc. Stop chasing shadows and just taste it. If it's bad move on, if it's good, order it.

If bars can't move kegs fast enough to keep "fresh" people happy, they're just not going to order the kegs anymore

 

Agreed.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong..... but my understanding of beer freshness was that untapped kegs typically stay fresh much longer than single bottles or cans. Kegs are a large volume with little oxygen ingress and in practice distributors/retailers typically keep untapped kegs refrigerated. Unfortunately, we can't say the same about single bottles/cans being kept refrigerated and the container seals do allow small amounts of oxygen into the container over time that can eventually oxidize/stale the beer. Not that a keg is completely impenetrable to oxygen either but whatever oxygen that does get in around the keg's seal would have to react with [i.e. oxidize] a much larger volume than in a bottle/can. So, personally, I don't applied the same "best by" dating concepts to kegs as I would bottles/cans. I've always thought the main factor for freshness of kegged beer was [to your point] when the keg was tapped, and the retailer properly maintaining and cleaning their draft systems.

To be honest I can't recall any comprehensive discussion of the technical details of freshness, refrigeration, oxygen ingress, packaged oxygen, and oxidation rates between bottles, cans, and kegs + draft systems. I have read separate technical discussions of kegs, draft systems, bottles and cans, but never together. So, I meant it when I said above, "please correct me if I'm wrong."

@Peter_Wolfe, @jesskidden, @JackHorzempa, @hopfenunmaltz any thoughts on freshness in regards to kegs and/or draft systems?


To the those that think everyone can just sample to determine keg freshness, I would strongly question most people's ability to do so, unless they were very familiar with the beer or the keg was very old/flawed; and whether or not draft system is well-kept complicates this freshness determination further. I'm sure there are a few people on these boards could tease out freshness based on a sample, but based on the statements, habits, and practices stated by many around here, well.... let's just say I take a most people's opinions of beer freshness/quality with a fair amount of skepticism.

 

100% ok to do. I love it when people ask. Come up to VT and ask as many questions as you want about the beer, as well as where your food comes from, when it was slaughtered, etc and we'll have all the answers for you. The more questions you ask, the better. Your'e paying for quality and service - otherwise you'd just be paying for someone to fill a glass with beer- and you can do that at home.

 

I doubt any bar could make $$$ if most of their drinkers are beer snobs. Beers snob don't drink enough, they want a different beer all the time, fancy glassware and they are bad tippers!

 

If the bar where you ask those questions is also a restaurant, and you're thinking about ordering a steak - make sure you ask the server when the cow was slaughtered, when the steak was cut from the side of beef and how long was it aged. And if you want to go for the trifecta, ask the busboy or whoever fills your water glass where the water came from, what chemicals are in it and how far did it have to travel from reservoir to you.

You're ordering a beer, not a bottle of vintage wine.

 

I've been a bartender at my tavern for over 4 years. This is a great question to ask. And if your bartender doesn't know when the keg was tapped, I promise you they feel bad for not knowing. Because they KNOW they SHOULD KNOW. There have been many times when I take two days off work and come into a shift seeing new beers on draught. Because I ENJOY craft beers, I enquire about them. Not a lot of bartenders do,- most are partial to liquor. Every bartender has their strengths.

I handle inventory for my bar so I work closely with eagle rock, United etc. there really isn't a way to know how long these kegs have been sitting before I get them, or where they were sitting.

Also, there have been many times when I finally get my hands on a fresh keg I'm excited to tap, but it sits in our cooler as I wait for the current tap to kick before it, hence, all of you hearing often "please, enjoy these free beer samples kind patron." AKA "I need to clear this line! Drink this!"

Most bartenders know when wine is delivered, when liquor is delivered, what days of the week draught lines are cleaned ( THATS THE BIGGEST ONE) and on which days of the week kegs are delivered. Asking how fresh a beer is is a perfectly acceptable question and a GREAT bartender will know the answer. Not an average one, though.

 

You'd be surprised how many people really do ask those questions. For a $10 steak salad on top of that.

 

Feel free to ask, but be prepared to get an unsatisfactory answer. Most bartenders at self-respecting beer bars will probably be able to tell you how recently a keg was tapped (ballpark, probably not a precise day and time), but very few will know when a particular keg was filled. While most kegs do have some sort of date on them, keg labeling is just as inconsistent as bottle labeling with regards to how much information is given and where that information is on the keg. Many large brewers (Odell and Goose Island, among others) print information on the sides of kegs, where it is often hidden from view in crowded keg rooms. I'll also say that nine times our of ten I'm in a pretty big hurry while changing a keg, and I won't be paying much attention to the date on the keg even if it is clearly visible.

If your primary concern is drinking beers that are as fresh as possible, go to a brewery.

 

The key here is your enjoyment. And that you give a shit. And bartenders are no different than anybody else - we all have our strengths.

 

If it matters to you, ask...it is your money and the establishment wants your money. However, if they don't or can't answer, you should be prepared not to make the purchase. In other words, if it really doesn't matter - don't ask, because the poor bartender probably doesn't know.

 

I remember when beer was fun and every detail wasn't over analyzed and I'm not even that old.