Creating a bug farm

I have stepped up dregs a few times. I make a very very weak gravity starter from extract and just store them at room temp and while I have yet to taste any of my finished products I have successfully stepped up the dregs and formed pellicles on some of them. I start with like a cup or less starter and have stepped them up to a half gallon of 1.040 wort.

 

I have started doing this exact thing. I have 2 RR starters (soon to be 3 when I drink my 1st bottle of Beatification this weekend), 1 JP, a failed Fantome that I need to discard, Orval, and a Reinhardt going. I plan on stepping up some of my others as well like Cantillon, Oud Beersel, and quite a few others.

One thing that the Mad Fermentationist (BA "OldSock") told me was instead of doing a starter for the specific dregs, add just those dregs to a beer you are souring. Once you bottle that batch, you have ~ 50 sets of dregs for that culture now at your disposal. You can also do multiple dregs in a single batch and start a "house" culture of different wild bugs and yeasts, and add the dregs of that beer to future sours (along with other dregs for more complexity and to grow the house culture further).

For culturing I have been making a 2000ml starter comprised of 150g DME, 500ml Apple Juice (per Vinnie), and 1500ml water boiled with nutrients and cooled for a wort of about ~1.030. I then transfer about 400ml into a plastic water bottle and freeze (5 bottles). When I put a wild beer in the fridge, I remove the water bottle from the freezer to dethaw. Upon drinking the beer I flame the lip, pour, and then pour the wort from the plastic bottle into the beer bottle containing the dregs and cover with foil. This allows me to know exactly what is in that bottle since it has the label on it still. Keep at basic ale temps for a few weeks. I had mine in the ferm fridge that went up to 95*F and my Fantome now has Icebergs (mold) and a Sea Cucumber (more mold?) growing in it - Ryane told me that this kind of stuff happens when they get too warm.

Honestly, I am thinking of adding all my current starters to one of my 1/2 gallon jugs and add more starter wort and new dregs to that so I have a single house culture going and can add that to my sours. Seems much easier to maintain and eventually I will have bottled beers form this house culture that I can add to new sours and do away with maintaining a culture.

Hope that helps, and good luck.

 

IMO, it's really hard to do proper "bug farms". Starters inevitably introduce oxygen which fuels acetobacter. I think the best way of doing it is to do a sour (whether that's from dregs, wyeast/WL, etc) and then work from there.

 

This is true as well. I forgot about that part in my response and as I think about doing a "bug farm" My Supplication starter that I made a year ago has acetic acid in it as well as the other wanted stuff.

 

Yes.

Unless you want to keep it "pure", for instance, I have two beers with Bugfarm 5 going right now that haven't gotten any dregs for that reason, there's no real harm in adding dregs. This assumes that you like the character of the beer. I wouldn't add any Boon dregs as I find the brett notes from Boon to be pretty... fecal.

 

No. The only real consideration is age. The fresher the bugs the better.

 

This is exactly what I did for my Cab barrel Flander's Red, and it worked incredibly well. Pitched 1 pack/5 gallons wort of Roselare + RR Consecration Dregs + Rodenbach + Duchess dregs (5 packs total plus dregs for 20 gallon batch and addition upon racking to barrel) [I've heard that Rodenbach and Duchess are pasteurized, but pitched anyway].

 

I am surprised you had issues with Fantome as they have had my best success rate and always seem to take off the quickest. What bottle did you use and how did it fail? Did it never start fermenting?

 

I've made a good saison with Fantome dregs as well, but I was very surprised when the Fantome flavor completely dominated the beer. I wasn't expecting that. Kind of like 3711. I had a stalled ferment one time and pitched 3711 to get the beer down from 1.020 and all I could taste was 3711.

 

Good to hear that the Fantome took over your beer as I am trying to make a saison reminiscent of Fantome. I have heard people say that the lacto becomes super strong and can dominate the beer when using Fantome dregs, was this true in your case?

 

Yeah Fantome lacto is kinda crazy. The beers I have used the dregs in have ranged from about 8IBUs to 60, and they have all been lactic even though lacto isn't supposed to be active over about 5-10IBUs. The lactic flavor doesn't dominate though, its just that classic Fantome flavor. Lemony, tart, creamy mouthfeel, lots of funk with age.

 

I used a bottle of Printemps, not sure of the age. The bottle has quite a bit of mold floating on the top and a large carpet on the bottom that looks like a Sea Cucumber. Smells musty. I was not too happy, $15 beer was awesome and really wanted to get that character into my beers.

 

Yeah that sounds a little extreme even for wild yeast/bacteria. I have found that Fantome dregs pellicles tend to look a little more mold like than others. I have had success with the regular saison and Pissenlit if you are looking for others.

 

Yeah, I smelled it again last night after replying and it is definitely mold. I am hoping to find some fresher stuff, maybe something different than the Printemps (try some of there other stuff) this weekend in Portland. Only one place in Eugene carries it and I'm not sure how old it is. I'd like to get a new starter of it going to add to the new house culture I'm going to build.