Creative vs Gimmicky

That doesn't invalidate exceptions like the ones mentioned above. It also doesn't change that nobody uses language in a way that adheres to its strictest rules. Plus as I mentioned, I was more specifically referring to things that have an inherently subjective component - not to statements of fact.

If we also really break it down, that is also only the case because our understanding of language has made us think of them as such. Language may have structures, but is also has wildly arbitrary properties.

 

Below 3.49 on BA - gimmick
3.5 or above on BA - creative

 

I disagree. For me it's all about Novelty and Adding Value.

Is a vortex bottle novel? Yes. Does it add value? No.
Is having saffron as an ingredient in a new beer novel? Does it add value? Yes. Or no, if you're...satisfied with blue mountains on a cold beer, a cynic, one to poo-poo beers with high brow ingredients.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, but to me a pumpkin beer in 2014 just by itself is gimmicky/bandwagony, a barrel aged pumpkin stout on the other hand, now THAT'S creative!

Lord help us when we all reach a point where barrel aged beers are passe. #1stWorldProblems

(PS - To me, good artwork is a sign that the brewer takes enough pride in their beer to commission a piece of art that makes the beer really pop on the shelf to pique my interest. My lone complaint about Ipswich Oatmeal Stout is the packaging. 1987 called, it wants its eggplant colored clipper ship packaging back.)

 

I couldn't agree more. I appreciate a nice label on a good beer.

 

Of course it can be a marketing gimmick. If you are a consumer looking to try a new beer and you know nothing else except what the packaging is telling you, the artwork on said bottle can and does influence purchasing decisions.
You don't think that is part of Stone's or Flying Dog's or Dogfish Head's approach?

 

A barrel aged pumpkin stout could be used as a marketing gimmick as well. I think that's a strategy that DFH, for example, used to try to set themselves apart in the craft beer game. Pushing the envelope as far as ingredients used in their beers. Do some of these ingredients add value? I guess that would be up to the individual beer drinker to ponder. Is it a marketing ploy (gimmick) to get more folks to try their beers? Certainly.

 

No examples...creativity vs gimmicky has more to do with personal perception than anything else. All beer has aspects of creativity and some more gimmicky than others...that is my perception.

 

As Justice Stewart said about pornography, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

 

It's my perception this is the most interesting thread on this forum in a month or so. It's subjectively black and white...or a gray area....that's my opinion. I think. I'm not sure.

 

Marketing is essentially gimmicky, while brewing is essentially creative...where each brewer falls along this continuum is up to them.

 

Vortex bottles. Color changing artwork.
Those are gimmicks. Learn how to properly pour a damn beer!

Gimmick beer? I don't know. It's a what is possible when I do this kind of curiosity which has driven humans since day one. We have thumbs after all.
We are at the point where good beer is a global thing, and fermenting ingredients for drinking and enjoying getting inebriated; whether in joy or sadness from does is something nearly every one does. For many subsets of these drinkers, what's common to some is a complete gimmick to others. Hops were once a gimmick. Nearly all of the beer America brewed in its earliest days were complete novelties to what these (European) immigrants were used to drinking back in their respective homelands. Not all of them were worth remembering, and those recipes have been filed away, or lost. Many others are now being discovered and brewed once again. A lot of the styles being recovered now are (to our) perception, gimmicks. But, historically they were the preferred style, or they were what some cities, or regions in insert country here were known to do over anything else. Kind of like the hot dog argument people get into, or the pizza argument get into when they talk about different cities pie or encased meat and their preferred delivery method.
There are also many different seasonal beers that were brewed and are now being brewed again. Beer to some is not beer to others. Just like some people want a mixed drink neat, and others want it on the rocks. Shaken, not stirred.

 

i think along the lines of this as well. i think the passion and integrity of the brewer plays a significant role in whether something is gimmicky or creative. are you making it for the love of beer or making it for the love of profit?
same with music or any other art. it resonates in the end product.

 

Just how exactly are you going to gauge a brewer's intentions?

 

We don't have to... they do, and if they are honest with themselves they know where their head is at.

 

clearly you can't test it directly but like i said, i think you can generally taste it in the end product. i never met shaun hill, but from drinking his beers, i know he's passionate about brewing.

 

Mhm, true. Good point.

Not sure about this one, though. I mean if you compare big conglomerate brews with craft brews yeah but if you're already within that realm? What if you just don't like it? Where do you draw the line? Like, what's the criteria?

 

I would bet my last dollar his intent is to sell beer.

 

Everyone making a product probably also wants to sell it, that's a given. The question was more whether someone was more interested in profit than making a good product or vice-versa.