Crooked Stave's Diacetyl Problem

The Love Child beers, our series of sours, are not pasteurized. It's important to note that when we do pasteurize beer, we're doing it before bottling and are still bottle conditioning. The beer is still alive and is suitable for cellaring, if that's what you're into.

Here's a link to a blog post with more details:

http://www.boulevard.com/pasteurization-at-boulevard/

 

I am not a home brewer so forgive me. But what cause the buttered popcorn/diactyl taste in beer? I read that it can be caused by dirty lines or bad bottling technique or related uncleanliness. Am I wrong? And why are several of Crooked stave's beers from this past year that way? I have really liked many of their beers (chardonay reserva and b1 persica were both amazing) but the new persicas? Diactyl bombs both blends. Batch 60? Diactyl. St. Bretta fall? Diactyl. Am I way of and it's staves house yeast or something?

 

I have been hearing this too. This is likely a fact of bottle conditioning. Pretty much any homebrew I make will start with diacetyl from the bottling yeast re-ferment, then dissipate from yeast absorption.

It might be that the CS sours have pedio that throws more than the usual diacetyl which takes longer to dissipate, or perhaps some oxidized precursor (alpha acetolactate). Time will eliminate it. Both my 2013 Persica batches do not have any diacetyl. I have them stored warm until I drank 'em.

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/crooked-staves-diacetyl-problem.144804/

 

There is nothing you can do if you are sensitive to diacetyl, and the beer is opened. I am, and a beer with it is ruined for me, but not everyone is as sensitive as that.

Keeping affected beer cellared for a year or three will most likely clean it up, but it might not. Yeast normally clean up their messes if given enough of a chance is how I was taught.

 

Yeah, I would guess it's the strain of yeast used in bottle conditioning. I was there Monday night drinking off the taps, the only thing I tasted was brettanomycaes. After fermentation is over, diacetyl is usually cleaned up with a diacetyl rest, especially for ales. The fermentation vessel would normally be turned up 10 degrees or so for 1-3 days. I would listen to these guys and let your bottle come to room temp for a short time. Then throw it back in the fridge.

 

At the homebrew level, as AndyCarter mentioned, we get it often at dry hopping or bottle conditioning, even with prior diacetyl rest. It often clears itself up with 3-4 months in the bottle. Definitely frustrating at the homebrew level, but for production breweries, time they probably don't want to sit on the stock.

 

Really? I've recently had multiple bottles of each and I haven't noticed any diacetyl whatsoever.

 

Agree. Batch 60 didn't have any issues, IMO, and was a fantastic beer. One of the best I've had in the past year.

 

Not really. As a sour beer lover, of the now 1000 different beers I've had, 5 have been diactyl. 3 of those were stave. It's the nature of chads beer, what ever his answer I'm not really chomping at the bit for more stave beers.

 

I don't believe the beer is bottle conditioned...something about keeping it tasting like how he pulls it out of the barrels, that is when it's ready. We see it being bottled, then in the taproom for sale that week. But then now we're supposed to age everything, so I don't know. I still love CS.

 

I'm pretty sure all Chad's beers are bottle conditioned. . .

 

Diacetyl is a natural byproduct of brewing, but is usually cleared up by the yeast. A lot (all?) of it comes from bacteria, and this bacteria can thrive in dirty tap lines.

 

As I said before. After 1000 different beers, only 5 or so were diactyl and 3 of those were recent stave. Diactyl is a byproduct of stave brewing, you mean. I don't to mean to dis them but trading my good beers for a diactyl bomb is lame. I won't be looking for stave beers for a while. So glad I didn't get into the bottle club.

 

I've had 1770 unique beers, according to untappd </endtroll>

 

I'm actually amazed you've only gotten diacetyl from 5 beers out of 1,000.

 

Not too surprising considering many of the people on this site keep their beers in a warm closet for two years before drinking them.

 

Well, yes and no. Diacetyl is a byproduct of a precursor from yeast metabolism (through another process). All beers go through it, but given time the yeast will then eat the diacytel. But, diacytel can also come from post brew bacterium. In Crooked Stave's case, most probably the barrel aging, or aging of newly introduced yeast to the wort (the Brett). Again, given time the yeast will eat this in the bottle.
With Crooked Stave, maybe they're releasing their bottles too early...and this would be my guess...and not letting the bottles (or the consumers are not letting them) sit in "warm" conditions for the yeast to work its magic. Still, with all the Brett they use, Crooked Stave beers will change just about month to month.

http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/diacetyl.html

EDIT: Disclaimer....I'm not a pro. Alan? David?

 

Diacetyl is a by-product of Pedio, but Brett (or brewer's yeast) will almost always clean it up with time (depending on amts of each), hence why it may be present if CS is releasing their bottles immediately after bottling vs. AC Golden that releases a couple months after bottling.

If it's a 100% Brett, it's likely that it may not be Diacetyl but rather ATHP , which can leave a similar taste in light beers (those with minimal specialty malts).

Another good read:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/diacetyl-variety-sours-400869/