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Damaged and they are returning it to me...

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by oteixeira, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Fedex never even contacted me, just went from damaged to damaged-cannot deliver-returning to sender...

    had a GBS, 2 Liquid Bliss and a BBA Founders in the damn box. I am gonna kick someone in the teeth. GRRRR
     
  2. SpeedwayJim

    SpeedwayJim Poo-Bah (2,130) Jun 19, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Careful... if that's you in your profile, it doesn't look like you can afford to get kicked back!

    In all seriousness, this kind of thing happens, chalk it up to a lesson learned and maybe more careful packaging next time (even though I realize how these boxes get treated at times).
     
    whiskey and FalconA like this.
  3. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Initiate (154) Jun 7, 2005 New York

    Better wear a mouth-guard......most damaged boxes occur due to poor packaging.

    You're lucky that they're even sending it back. I'd be thanking FedEx, actually....
     
  4. Bad_Trader

    Bad_Trader Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2012 Namibia

    Beaten by mere moments.
     
  5. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    wow, OK, so 2 rolls of bubble wrap for 4 bombers is not enough. :( Good to know. My guess is they are just really really busy and because of that things got a little hairy with the box. The hard part for me is going out tonight to try to replace the liquid bliss, cause if they broke, there are none in my cellar, since I wasn't real interested it them in the first place.
     
  6. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Initiate (154) Jun 7, 2005 New York

    Depends on what you mean by a "roll". There are countless ways to screw up a packing job that exist well outside of the amount of bubble wrapped used. Just sayin'.....

    Also, don't trade stuff that you can't replace....and if you are sending out something that can't be replaced, pack it ridiculously well. When you think you've protected them well enough......protect them some more.

    EDIT: And just to stress this point further: They're sending the box back to you. This typically does not happen. Be thankful, if anything.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  7. Steimie

    Steimie Initiate (0) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan

    I won't venture a guess as to how carefully you packed the box, but you really are lucky they're sending it back.
     
    robinsmv and pschul4 like this.
  8. shebby

    shebby Initiate (0) Feb 29, 2012 Utah
    Beer Trader

    Agreed. I also just had (presumably) a bottle break in a box that I sent out. Only I shipped UPS so instead of sending the box back to me, or removing the bottle and sending it on to my recipient, they destroyed the entire box. After a good run of successful trades, that definitely stung.
     
  9. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    OK, I get it. I must have messed something up. Hopefully some of the bottles survived, but if not, I will do right by my trader, he is a great guy.
     
  10. DenverBeerDrinker

    DenverBeerDrinker Aspirant (255) Apr 5, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    A couple months back I had the same thing happen with Fedex. When I called I was told minimal damage. I got the box back and 3 of the 6 bottles were gone. Not what I would have called "minimal damage".

    Luckily the hardest to replace were the ones I got back.
     
  11. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I typically only use about 3 sheets on a bomber and I've never had one break in 100 or whatever boxes I've sent. It's not about how you wrap the individual beer so much as what you do to keep it away from the sides of the box. The individual wrap is really just to keep it from clanging against anything else inside the box. Otherwise, I think breakage often happens when your bottle is sitting against a thin single wall or soft corner and it gets dropped or poked by a forklift or something.

    Either way, no matter how well you pack, there are certain incidents where shit just happens.
     
  12. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Yea, I hear ya, now I am holding my breath, I called to see if they could tell me how bad it was and they said that they are actually sending it through to the trader. I asked what was damaged and she couldn't tell me, tried to call the facility, and all she could get was voicemail, so they will call me back. Maybe they are just going to deliver whatever wasn't broke?? cbeer, I wonder if I could have had it too thin at the bottom of the bottle, that is one place that doesn't get the same layers as the sides....oh well, I live and I learn, bombproof and a half from now on...
     
  13. JohnGalt1

    JohnGalt1 Poo-Bah (4,635) Aug 10, 2005 Idaho
    Beer Trader

    Everybody should remember too, that damage does not necessarily mean a bottle broke.... It could have just leaked enough to draw suspicion. It does not matter how much bubblewrap you use if a bottle leaks significantly.

    The only time I've lost a bottle in 200+ trades is just about 3 months ago... and it is the ONLY time recently that I did NOT put my mass of bottles in a garbage bag. An extra leaked and they were going to send it back to me, but I called the local hub and the trader's wife was able to pick up the remaining bottles.
     
  14. brownswisscow

    brownswisscow Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 Vermont

    I had a package returned...a 6 shipper in a garbage bag with all bottles individually wrapped.
    When it was returned it didnt smell anything like beer and the only thing missing was a can of Heady. Color me confused, although I'm pretty sure it exploded somehow (temp/pressure?).

    I guess my point is, anything can happen, it may have nothing to do with your packing.
     
  15. Ynot2

    Ynot2 Initiate (142) Jul 24, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    I just picked a box from FedEx that looks like it was crushed between the truck and the loading dock. Two broken bottles. My first return in over 100 trades. Stuff happens, especially this time of the year.
     
  16. sandiego67

    sandiego67 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2008 California

    I was told by FedEx today that I am not allowed to ship alcohol without a license. Do they ever ask you questions when they return it?
     
  17. xxcarpxx

    xxcarpxx Initiate (0) Jan 13, 2011 Alabama

    If it was me, I wouldn't bother them with to many questions about what broke.... Because someone might start asking you questions in return....if they process the box thru, your trading parter will definitely let you know what was damaged.....then send another box if needed...if you need another Liquid Bliss message me....and as mentioned....I think safety is in the bottles being away from the walls of the box...
    Cheers...
     
    Duff27 and oteixeira like this.
  18. imfrommichigan

    imfrommichigan Aspirant (267) Jul 12, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Nah. The drivers don't care. They just slap packages on porches in a timely manner.
     
  19. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    I appreciate it, but I picked up a spare tonight, just in case. LOL
     
    xxcarpxx likes this.
  20. ewright

    ewright Initiate (0) Oct 25, 2007 North Carolina

    This! I typically use one Fedex padded envelop per bottle, but I make darn sure there's no wiggle room in the box AT ALL. You could put glass on glass, but if it can't move relative to the other contents, it's pretty secure.

    The best thing about those padded envelopes is that they're FREE when you sign up for an online account, which is ALSO FREE!
     
  21. Demer

    Demer Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2010 New Jersey

    I really think you should invest in some beer shippers. Its not 100% but those packages can get pretty mangled and still show up in one piece. I ship all my trades with them and its worth the money and piece of mind.
     
    Sarlacc83 and Bluecane like this.
  22. sandiego67

    sandiego67 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2008 California

    They make you declare the value of the package. If it gets damaged during shipping, do they reimburse you?
     
  23. Bluecane

    Bluecane Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2011 New York

    I do a shipper + a good bit of bubble wrap + newspaper/filler. Plus, having a 12-pack shipper gives you a good excuse to expand trades and/or include extras, which is always fun.
     
  24. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    What are these shippers? I usually use boxes I get from the bottle shops (I buy too much for myself as well, and walk out with boxes of beer). This one I admit was NOT in a bottle box, I just didn't have one around. I bet that was my downfall!
     
  25. DenverBeerDrinker

    DenverBeerDrinker Aspirant (255) Apr 5, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I use a lot of styro wine shippers (get a lot of wine sent to me also :rolleyes:). I also use the shippers that are sent when I order beer from some place. They are double walled cardboard with little cut out pieces on the sides of each of the 12 holders that can fold in and hold the bottles in place. There are at different heights so that it will hold 12oz thru 750ml pretty good.
     
    Bluecane likes this.
  26. Bluecane

    Bluecane Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2011 New York

    Wine shippers, made from styrofoam.
     
  27. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    There are different kinds, but they look like this:
    http://www.uline.com/BL_5450/Styrofoam-Wine-Shippers

    If you trade enough you eventually start to have these coming out your ass in various sizes and models.

    FWIW, you should never ship in those boxes you get from a bottle shop. They're typically single wall, which would point towards the root of your problem. An easy tip is to pack up that box like you did, then put that into another box with peanuts. (Classic box within a box) That's usually what I do when all I have is singlewall boxes and no formal wine shippers on me.
     
    Archemedies, robinsmv and xxcarpxx like this.
  28. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Cool, based on price, I will be happy when those start to come out of my ass....basically doubles shipping cost for a 12 holder.
     
  29. Bluecane

    Bluecane Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2011 New York

    I like to send first and then have the other trader send the shipper back to me. This was I can keep reusing it, and I am confident that my beer will be safe, too.
     
  30. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Yeah, I mean, trading beer just isn't cheap though. You look like you're about 5 trades in, and you just had a broken shipment, which is going to cost you the full rate to ship it again, plus the cost of whatever bottles you lost in the process. They can be had in bulk for $10-$12 at other sites sometimes. There are also pulp shippers which are a little cheaper and almost as good.

    As Bluecane pointed out, it's also totally reasonable to just ship first in the styro, and then request it sent back to you. Those things will last many shipments.
     
    Bluecane likes this.
  31. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Hey....more then 5....but less then 10. :) I will look into getting a few of them. Thanks for the tips guys.
     
  32. DenverBeerDrinker

    DenverBeerDrinker Aspirant (255) Apr 5, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I have quite a bit of those pulp shippers but won't ship those without box-in-a-box. Just don't trust them with the beer.

    cbeer88 is right, better to spend a little more and make sure it gets there then to have a shipment break and have to replace the beer as well spend the money to ship again. I'm about 75 shipments in and have had one breakage. And that breakage was a styro shipper so nothing is foolproof.
     
  33. biglobo8971

    biglobo8971 Devotee (475) May 6, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    "Yea, I hear ya, now I am holding my breath, I called to see if they could tell me how bad it was and they said that they are actually sending it through to the trader. I asked what was damaged and she couldn't tell me, tried to call the facility, and all she could get was voicemail, so they will call me back. Maybe they are just going to deliver whatever wasn't broke?? cbeer, I wonder if I could have had it too thin at the bottom of the bottle, that is one place that doesn't get the same layers as the sides....oh well, I live and I learn, bombproof and a half from now on.."
    remember, this is trying to help:
    I sell packaging materials for a living. Usually on every box there is a number next to the anacronym ECT (Edge Crush Test) which basically gives you the rating of the box. The ECT number is the amount of pounds it would take to make the sides fail if the weight was stacked right on top of the side of the box. Do not use anything under 32 ECT. It may seem strong enough, but trust me the extra change will add considerable strength to the integrity of your box. You have to remember, its not the throwing around of your box that normally damages it. Its the stacking and packing that shipping companies do to maximize profits by putting as many packages in one trailer as possible. So if it looks sturdy as hell, it will get stacked upon. And yes, feel lucky that they are forwarding the box on. Fedex did the same for me, and only one bottle broke. So yes, I will always use Fedex.
     
  34. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    For what it's worth, wineries and stores seem to be moving to the sideways pulp crates as the price of styros keeps going up. If it's good enough for them to ship hundreds of boxes full of expensive wine, it's probably good enough for beer trading. I've never had a problem with one in either direction...
     
  35. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Thanks biglobo, I will take a look at the numbers from now on as well.
     
  36. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Disciple (363) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    Surely I can't be the only immature one here noticing all the enticing text within this thread just waiting for a wise crack....
     
  37. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    In all seriousness, if the cost of the shippers are too much for you to live with, trading may not be something you want to get too deep in. Trading is not cheap, and if you try to make it inexpensive by cutting corners on packaging it will most likely cost you more in the long run and be a hassle. The shippers are reusable for a good number of shipments (depends on the hub that handles them, some people I trustee have boxes last 10+ travels, others only 2-4). So a $12-15 shipped can only be an extra $2 each shipment.

    I am not trying to imply you didn't pack well, who knows the box could have been ran over by a truck and only one bottle broke. The bottle shippers are not 100% safe either though. I sent one out that seemed VERY secure. Upon arrival the recipient wondered why I didn't return his shipper. Turns out FedEx broke a bottle and repacked everything in a completely new box (and according to the other person, fairly badly). There was no notice or anything, so my guess is some employee screwed up badly in damaging the box and once they saw alcohol they figured all parties involved wouldn't mind if the incident was resolved secretly.

    Also, there are these shippers which might be cheaper if bought in bulk: http://gorillashipper.com/wine-bottle-packagingshippers/
     
  38. bobbidylan

    bobbidylan Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2010 Florida

    Alot of shipping does have to do with how you pkg.your bottles BUT also keep the box around 10pds and lighter break up the shipment into two boxes. Rememer heavier boxs have a chance to break open more than one that is around 10pds. Next time do a MPS shipment with Fedex it will save you money Express Saver.
     
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