decoction resources?

I'm sorry. Did I say that? If so, I certainly didn't mean to or insinuate that was the case.

Oh . . . I think that I see the confusion. That should read, "it involves boiling more than just wort".

Is that better?

 

Here's another pretty interesting experiment. Again, nothing overly scientific and it certainly did not take place in a lab setting, but I think it's worth a read.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...e Aeration of Wort, Mash and Sparge Water.pdf

 

The stale cardboard aroma and flavor takes a while, and there are many other stale flavors and aromas.

Every had a German Pilsner with a honey aroma? That is 2,3-pentanedione.

British Ales can take on a sweet, toffee and candied taste. I don't but those in the US anymore, as they don't taste like that in England.

Malt aromas become dull and muted. Same for hops. I judged a Homebrew Competition in June, IPA category, where it was easy to pick the old the old vs fresh brewed examples.

 

I sure hope no one ever looks to my opinions and experience as irrefutable scientific evidence -- OMG. Hats off to folks like Bryan, and Marshall & Co., for getting about as close as any of us probably ever will (yes, and some closer than others).

Cheers.

 

Jack, last ime in Germany I asked a brewer about oxidation. He says Brewers with older equipment that fill from the top are often known to have a house flavor due to oxidation.

My impression of many Franconian beers is that they use more hops, which help to cover up the oxidized taste. First sip, you go what is that? Second sip, not as bad. Third sip you don't notice anymore.

His system is from 1971, but fills from the bottom. He decocts his Dunkel, which is what the brewery is known for.

 

Interestingly enough, I am full on convinced that if a beer has that old honey flavor and aroma it used carahell. It only shows up for me in beers where I use carahell, and for me that is a bunch.

 

Jeff, what are your thoughts about Mahr's beer? I watched some video of that brewery and it does not appear to be a LODO brewery to me. Would you state that Mahr's beers are oxidized?

Cheers!

 

Not so sure, I usually get the "U", which has a lot of hops. Maybe I need to try the Helles next time.

 

Here's my reference:

 

interesting discussion here. one thing i would like to disabuse folks of is the notion that protein rests necessarily do damage. ones that extend excessively may, but the claim that any and all rests at 122 F are damaging is false. similarly, to state that decoctions are always damaging is equally false. far too many factors to account for to make such a blanket statement.

 

You sure about that? Had plenty of all-Pilsner-malt beers (zero CaraHell) take on a honey/honeycomb character due to age/oxidation.

 

I dunno.... maybe??!

Have any examples so we can compare/contrast?

 

have a bierkeller keg of old, all-pilsner-malt koelsch that definitely exhibits this character. y'all all wanna come over and have some?

 

HAH! there you go. Sell that stuff, people will say HEY! this tastes exactly like nearly every European bottle I buy at the liquor store.

 

Probably an older thread and I'm new here. Either way, I wanted to chip in on this one as it is a topic of interest to me. I have always used a 2 (sometimes 3) step decoction mash for my lagers (mostly Marzen and Pils with an occasional Mai Bock).

I respect those with a more scientific view on this topic who point to some of the potential issues with this method on a small scale, using primitive tools. My experience simply does not bear out these problems, particularly around staleness etc. My Marzen is gone within days of tapping it. I could probably sell the stuff!

I will point out that I am very careful in the process to avoid splashing, thick wort extraction, reconstitution etc. Maybe I've been lucky? I don't know. Until fate punches me in the face with a batch of dumpster brew, I'm a decoction mashing partisan.

 

And that 'observation' illustrates that homebrewing and commercial brewing can be differing enterprises.

If decoction brewing 'works' for your homebrewing practice then why would you consider doing anything differently? There is an old saying of: if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Cheers!

 

Wow...must have been on vacation last Summer at the end of July ...SOS