Design bottles vs. standard bottles

Discussion in 'Germany' started by danfue, Jul 4, 2013.

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  1. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    Interesting report I saw last night at Plusminus on ARD.

    Big breweries introducing specially designed bottles (e.g. Bitburger, Köstritzer) are giving smaller breweries a hard time. Because the designed bottles, most often with engraved brewery logo, might end up at any brewery, but of course they can't use them.
    The brewery shown in this report (Bergquell in Sachsen) is just an example for a smaller brewery. Their "Lausitzer Porter" is one of the worst things I have ever tried.
    There is an interesting round-up at the end though: why don't the big breweries invest those millions in tasteful beers instead of fancy bottles?

    For those of you who understand German or just like to watch, here's the link:
    http://mediathek.daserste.de/sendun...auereien-streit-individualflaschen-gefaehrden
     
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  2. Robert_N

    Robert_N Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2012 Wales

    How do they end up at these other breweries, I understand the process up to the point of the bottles/crates disappearing down a hole in the store, but then what happens?
     
  3. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    You're right about Lausitzer Porter. Wow.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  5. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Actually, the Mehrwegsystem, "multi-use system" is one reason why German brewers can offer their beers at retail at prices much lower than in the USA per bottle. If a brewery only has to sort out bottles and send just a few on their merry way to another bottle sorter, then it saves them money in buying NEW bottles and other costs from that. However, if, as they say here in the ARD report, Fernsehbiere are only trying to differentiate themselves by marketing/packaging rather than by quality or taste, it's really simply a 1) a ploy to remove smaller competitors from the market by driving up their cost, which for a business mostly run on very thin margins and competition based roughly on price, is deadly; and 2) a relatively short-term & "cheap" investment instead of investing in using better quality ingredients or longer lager times (even 1 week extra lagering makes a huge difference to their bottom line). This move to individual packaging is to woo the fickle, younger market whose not brand loyal yet. This is also another case of short-term thinking, IMO. Actually, I believe it's a phase the German beer industry must go through as part of their learning curve. In fact, by killing off the middle size independent brewers who brew boring, Einheitsbiere, or (standardized beers) beer anyway is maybe not a bad thing. That development wouldn't hurt the smaller, craft brewers of Bayern or elsewhere, and allow them more room to expand their marketshare.
     
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  6. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany


    There are only a couple of standard bottle types in Germany that are used by most (I'd say way more than 90%) of all breweries. So whenever they get a standard bottle with another brewery's label, it's no problem. But when they get design bottles by another brewery it's a huge problem, because they cannot use them, thus have to buy more new bottles.
    Another aspect of the report is the ecological nonsense of transporting empty design bottles back to their original brewery. Bitburger is sold in all of the country, so each bottle has to be returned to their only brewery in Bitburg. One of those experts shown there says something like "ecologically it would be more useful to just recycle those bottles in the glass trash".
     
  7. Erzengel

    Erzengel Zealot (664) Sep 8, 2008 Germany
    BA4LYFE Society Trader

    And the funny thing is, that there is a huge industry buying those "wrong" bottle from one brewery and selling them to the belonging brewery. The same is done with crates, which also might end up somewhere out of the distribution-range of a brewery...
     
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  8. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany


    Interesting. I was wondering, each brewery has empty bottles, so why can't they get the "wrong" bottles back to the next sorter who will pass them on to the right brewery? On account of the brewery with the design bottle of course.
    On the other hand, this would result in even more transport. So anyone buying a design bottle, just add € 0.08 to the price and throw it away. I'm always doing this when I have foreign bottles, it's a pain trying to return them anywhere else.

    EDIT: Now that I think of it, I was returning some bottles at a machine in a Real market a few weeks ago, and it accepted a Firestone and a Brooklyn bottle. Both of which are non-German standard bottles, or even sold there.
     
  9. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Ah yes, the ever-endearing very-German Mehrwegsystem. An excellent concept which is now suffering more than it ever has due to mentioned marketing efforts to revive ugly packaging (let's face it - you can only put so much lipstick on a massively scratched 0.5 liter pig). Some mineral water people are still using the same case (gasp!) in exciting hues of light green and shit brown which makes things easier, but even in that industry Individualkasten are becoming more and more the norm.

    Having worked at a distributor that moved about 80K-100K cases per day, I can tell you that with the increasing availability of almost all brands from Garmish to Flensburg, the growing wages and gas prices, with these changes the entire system must now be so costly and is surely no where near the original concept it once was. Throw in the increase costs of storage and bottle and case washing (water/electricity/spent water) and it probably makes more financial sense to simply put all glass bottles into the glass recycling system (mentioned in this piece). A reality most Germans don't want to accept by losing their dear and green "tradition" of reusing bottles.
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It is my understanding that the last US brewery to use returnable bottles was Straub’s in St. Marys, PA. They stopped using them recently (a year or so ago).

    From my readings it sounds like the costs associated with reusing bottles: transportation costs for returning bottles, energy and resource costs for washing the bottles, etc. just got too high for the US breweries. Maybe this is now going to happen in Germany?

    Cheers!
     
  11. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I believe that it has simply transformed into something else than the original plan. 25 years ago you couldn't find a weissbier north of Frankfurt and certainly nobody drank Beck's in Munich. In addition, those who live in Germany can sing a tune about the ever-increasing costs of Benzin/petrol, water, electricity and gas.
     
  12. Dirty25

    Dirty25 Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2012 Germany

    I know that Brooklyn bottles have a deposit when you buy them at Globus here in K-town. So if you pay a deposit when you buy them, they should have to give it back to you when you bring it back. I am sure they are just hoping you won't bring it back so they get your deposit.
     
  13. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Bottles like that are brought back to the supplier/importer and destroyed/recycled. This is (to my knowledge) also what is happening to the Corona bottles mentioned in the OP.
     
  14. PancakeMcWaffles

    PancakeMcWaffles Initiate (0) Jun 15, 2012 Germany

    That's the Braufactum Import I reckon?
    Braufactum adds a deposit, but at 8 cent it's pretty low, and only stores who sell Braufactum take them back - you've got to ask the cashier though! The deposit terminals don't take them back.
    Sounds silly and unnecessary, doesn't it?

    Cheers!
     
  15. Dirty25

    Dirty25 Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2012 Germany

    Sounds like they are hoping people just say screw it.
     
  16. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany


    I bought the Brooklyn and Firestone bottles at a Braufactum outlet in a Globus, but returned them at a machine in a Real. No problem, both were accepted with 8 cents.
     
  17. PancakeMcWaffles

    PancakeMcWaffles Initiate (0) Jun 15, 2012 Germany

    Lucky you!
    The last time I returned some of those bottles I tried the machine, didn't work, staff told me to ask the cashier, the cashier told me to try the machines in their Getränkemarkt (The bottles are sold in the main supermarket), those didn't take them either. The cashier in the Getränkemarkt finally took them, for 8 cents a bottle...
     
  18. JCBears

    JCBears Initiate (0) Jan 1, 2004 Germany



    This was an awesome and very forensic look at this topic. I have been seeing the marketing trend here steer away from old time quality to newer fancier marketing techniques and it is simply because of a younger more disenchanted crowd of younger consumers. True there is still a market for classic tastes in Germany and there always will be, but as the economy demands more of its consumers and unemployment continues to stay at current levels many here in Germany will continue to accept mediocrity as the standard.
     
  19. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Germans have already accepted mediocrity as their beer standard, more or less with Fernsehbiere. Just like they have in all mass produced products sold in supermarkets. The masses don't want more, and that's the case in almost every country. That's not the problem. The problem is that they the. Turn around and claim rather loudly that German beer is the best in the world and are astounded when I tell them no, it's only wonderfully bland and mediocre.
     
  20. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    You must be very popular. :wink:
     
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