Diacetyl in Beer

I was aware of the association of diacetyl with Czech brewed Pale Lagers (Czech Pilsners) but this is the first time I have heard about German brewed Pilsners having perceptible levels of diacetyl. An experience of "half of them" is significant!

Do you think this is a regional thing? Maybe Pilsners brewed in Bavaria is more likely to have perceptible diacetyl? Is the diacetyl intended to be there by the brewers (like it is in the Czech Republic)?

I would like to learn more.

Cheers!

 

I can't stand it and am very sensitive to it. Thankfully, I notice it more often due to dirty tap lines rather than the beer being off. Shipyard beers seem to have it in abundance in many of their beers or for that matter the ringwood yeast breweries i.e. Long Trail, Magic Hat, Grittys, Shipyard, etc

 

I like the took the optimism concept from @utopiajane as well, I agree with it as well, I guess to me too when it does show up it's not something you expect and becomes a distraction most of the time from your ability to enjoy the beer.

You go in with a perceived (rightly or wrongly) idea of what a beer is going to be fulfillment wise and then suddenly it becomes ... what the heck is this?

Optimism denied indeed, real Debbie Downer one could say

 

Did you watch the video with Dr. Charlie Bamforth?

He mentioned several times in the discussion how dirty tap lines (i.e., infection) can cause diacetyl in beer. He has a funny story where he was out with his wife and after one sip told the server that the beer was awful and that it was not because it tasted that when when it came from the brewery.

Cheers!

 

I'm curious if he's talking about bottles because I've only had that experience with bottles. They're a total crap shoot, especially if they're more than 3 months old. It isn't subtle either - we're talking old butter from 3 feet away and a texture like drinking olive oil.
Fresh/draft I've only gotten diacetyl once in Germany. I'm convinced there's something up with the domestic packaging process.

 

Maybe we will have to refer to this as a Maria Downer for the case of diacetyl!?!

Cheers!

 

I plan on watching this later...

However, I am kind of relieved but also bummed, about the fact diacetyl can be a cause from dirty lines cause

A) that explains the Holy Moses experience I had
B) that place I had the beer has never had bad lines before in my many years of going there.. say it aint so!

Most importantly I love the fact, that even if it's just a little tidbit...

I get to learn something new every day..

 

Chris, if he responds to my queries we may learn more.

Even if the situation is bottles, having 50% of the beer brands having perceptible diacetyl is a real problem.

You are guessing "domestic packaging process". If the German industry is incapable of properly bottling beer that is a BIG issue!!

Maybe @MattRiggs has some insight here?

Cheers!

 

That is my motto!

Cheers!

 

I don't like that butterscotch flavor in my beer, and I'm more sensitive to it than my wife is, so I may be more so that many others too. When I get a beer that has this flaw in it, I put the beer back on the bar/table and find some to complain to. Fortunately it has happened to me only once, and after I complained, the beer was taken offline by the brewer. It was a fresh beer that was tapped that day, and I was the first to order it, so I suspect it was rushed through fermentation to fill an empty tap.

 

One of the most useful things for me from this discussion was finding out diacetyl could be a result of a tap line infection. Here in PA the law requires lines be cleaned weekly and most places do, so I can still count on one finger the number of times I've had a beer on tap in PA where there was diacetyl that shouldn't have been there. However when traveling in other states it's happened more than once. Think I'll be revisiting a few of my reviews to see about giving some of those beers a second try.

Thanks to all for a useful set of questions and discussion.

 

My palate must be off I've never noted butterscotch in beer, or popcorn. I've had light struck beer I assume notably German imports, but it smells like cabbage and was skunky, it didn't take much of anything to say phew and pour it out. My palate tunes into the xtra malt a beer picks up as it ages primarily geared to IPAs or pale ales, the loss of hop influence to me is a clear line. But other infection issues are unknown to me, could be the styles I drink more than anything else.

 

Watched the video yesterday...

other interesting tidbit I got was either it's an accent thing, or perhaps I've been saying it differently.

you say die-ah-see-tuhl

I say die-a-sih-tuhl

tomato tomato?

 

It is possible that it is a regional thing I suppose, but our European Brewery study tour did take us to breweries in Austria as well, where the Pilseners that I tried there were in line with the German Pils and several of those also had diacetyl. When I was there, I actually posted about this in a forum and I think people had a tough time believing it. What our class was told was that several breweries were encouraging diacetyl because tasting panels had determined that they liked a little bit of diacetyl to help balance the hops. I believe the same effect could be had with using malts to balance the hops, but Germans are very proud of their extremely light colored Pils and they don't want to change the appearance of the beer... That is just my guess as to why more breweries are encouraging diacetyl there.

Also of note, the lone bottle of Pilsner Urquel that I drank while in Germany (it was a bottle shared amongst our class during a styles tasting) had significantly more diacetyl than any PU I have ever drank in the U.S. We were told that over the last 2 years PU was gradually raising the level of diacetyl. What we tasted was way over the top in my opinion.

 

Thank you for your response.

Was there any correlation between bottled vs. draft as mentioned by @Domingo above? Was diacetyl solely in bottled beers vs. draft?

Cheer!

 

The ex president of my homebrew club insisted it was pronounced kinda like this: die ASS ahtull.

 

It depends. Chemists say it one way, and Charlie Bamforth is a chemist so he says die-see-tul. Brewers say di-ass-ahtull.

 

Actually, almost everything we drank was draft at the breweries. In several instances, we were served the beer by the master brewer. The PU was in bottles however. In addition to that experience with the diacetyl though, it is worth noting that the only brewery I continued to buy bottled beer from was Augustiner (their helles) and even it occasionally tasted metallic in bottles. Most of the other beers that were in bottles were oxidized. Schneider's bottles seemed fine too, but I don't drink care for many wheat beers, so I did not buy their bottles often.

 

It sure sounds like your previous comment is the explanation: "What our class was told was that several breweries were encouraging diacetyl..."

I gotta admit that I find this vexing. Why German breweries would make a conscious decision to produce beers with perceptible levels of diacetyl is just strange to me.

Thank you for taking your time to share your experiences.

Cheers!