Did I kill my yeast? Should I repitch?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Euclid34, Nov 30, 2015.

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  1. Euclid34

    Euclid34 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2012

    Brewing my first batch using a gifted Mr Beer Kit. I decided to supe things up a little bit by adding some grains to the boil (half pound 60L crystal, along with a 10 min cascade hop boil, and replaced the Mr Beer yeast with Safale US-05.

    I am about 32h in and see no visible signs of fermentation. I am wondering if I may have killed my yeast during the rehydration process... I went to my local homebrew store and they told me it was best to rehydrate dry yeast (which I have found in my research to be quite the topic of debate) and said to 'boil some water in the microwave, add the yeast, and let it sit for 20 min before pitching.' I followed these instructions and pitched. since I have not seen any signs of fermentation at all, I have been brainstorming and am wondering if I may have killed the yeast as the water may have been to hot when I added the yeast. I didnt measure the temperature, but I looked up the US-05 rehydration instruction and I should have allowed the water to cool to 90 or so first.

    I should also note that I did not aerate as vigorously as I maybe should have. The fermenter has been at 64F since the pitch.

    I figured that I would give it a little bit more time, but I am not very optimistic its going to get started knowing i may have scorched the yeast and I am considering buying more US-05 and repitching. If so, I am thinking I will activate at the proper temperature and aerate, unless aerating with all the theoretically dead yeast is a bad idea.

    Thanks for the input, I have really enjoyed reading and learning about the brewing process!
     
  2. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    For future batches, you do not want to boil any grain. For something like C60, you would want to steep it at 150-160 degrees for 20-30 minutes and then removing them prior to adding the extracts and bringing it up to a boil.

    Your hunch was correct that this step most likely killed the yeast.

    This is what I would do too.
     
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  3. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    A couple things...

    Did you check the temperature of the water prior to adding the yeast? I suspect it was too warm and killed the yeast. Next time just dump the dry yeast directly into your chilled wort.

    Just because you do not see activity doesn't mean the yeast are not working. Did you check your gravity when you pitched? You always should do this, because you can now check it again to see if its doing anything.

    As mentioned above, do not boil grains. In the future steep you crystal malt at about 150 degrees prior to boiling.
     
  4. Euclid34

    Euclid34 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2012

    Thanks for the replies... I did in fact steep the grains prior to boil, sorry that wasnt clear. I did not check the temperature prior to adding the yeast, which has me concerned.

    I think I am going to go ahead and just pitch a dry packet of new US-05 into the fermenter if I do not detect any activity tonight. If I aerate would that cause any issues if the yeast was active?
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You learned the hard way that a lot of (I'd say most) LHBS employees are uninformed.

    What kind of signs did you look for? Look inside and see if a krausen has formed. It would look something like this...
    [​IMG]
    Or, if a krausen has formed, but already fallen, look for a ring of residue. (Though I'm not sure how visible that is in a Mr. Beer fermenter.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You do not want to aerate if fermentation is already underway.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Just to clarify, the LHBS person made no mention that you should let the boiled water cool down to around 90 degrees F before sprinkling the dry yeast into the water?

    Cheers!
     
  8. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    • MrB recipes should never be boiled. Ever. The liquid malt extract (LME) is pre-hopped and needs only to be re-hydrated.
    • One-half pound of 60L was over-kill for a 2G batch size. The result will likely be cloyingly sweet.
    • One package of US-05 (11.5 g) was more over-kill. Twice as much as needed; however ... not a big deal other than a waste of money.
    • As for pitching more US-05; just pitch the MrB yeast and be done with it. Aerate with a whisk for one minute.
    For best results ... new brewers should hew closely to the recipe and instructions.
     
  9. Euclid34

    Euclid34 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2012

    I am not going to blame the LHBS employee, I just didnt recall him saying to let it cool down. However, I should have been more skeptical of his advice as he told me to boil the HME for an hour... which I knew was bad info.

    I was looking for some sort of krausen formation and there is nothing at all, no ring, nothing. It is challenging to see in the mr beer fermenter as you mentioned!

    I am just happy that it sounds like I will be able to salvage this lot! I will add more US-05 and see what happens!

    Thank you all!
     
  10. Euclid34

    Euclid34 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2012

    Agreed, I just wanted a more involved brewing experience instead of adding just HME to boiling water. Thank you for your advice.
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This video may be helpful to you:

     
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    If you do not remember him saying "let it cool," then he failed to impress upon you a critical point about rehydrating yeast. I hate reading about LHBS employees giving bad advice (or failing to give good advice), but it apparently happens frequently. If homebrew shops don't take better care of newbies, well, that's like shooting yourself in the foot. Poor advice will cause some to leave the hobby, and the ones that stick around will weigh cheap prices of mail order retailers against their bad experiences with the local ones.
     
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  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Peter, in all fairness communication is a two way street. I may be that the LHBS employee did indeed mention that the water needed to cool down before the yeast is added but @Euclid34 may not have recalled that direction. As was posted: "I am not going to blame the LHBS employee, I just didn't recall him saying to let it cool down."

    If Euclid34 is unwilling to "blame" the employee then personally I will not as well.

    Cheers!
     
    #13 JackHorzempa, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  14. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah


    I didn't discount this possibility that it was mentioned. But if the employee's instructions were not recalled, he failed to impress upon his customer a critical point. Emphasis on impress. I'll bet you my conical fermenter that he didn't say ..."And this point is critical, CRTICAL: you absolutely positively must must must MUST MUST MUST remember to let the water cool to 90-95 F before you try to rehydrate, or your yeast will be DEAD DEAD DEAD..."

    PS: It's a sucker bet. I use plastic buckets.
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Heh. You prompted @Euclid34 to doubt his own memory. Thank goodness you're able to personally agree with yourself.
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The LHBS guy definitely should have done this, since a too high temperature is the most common way to screw up rehydrating yeast. Or he could have handed him an instruction sheet. Or a link to online instructions. Admittedly, I wasn't there and don't know what went down. But I've witnessed bad advice at LHBSs far too many times, so in general I'll say that (most) LHBSs can't for the most part compete price-wise with on line vendors, and many of them are wetting the bed regarding the one chance they have to add value, i.e. personalized, expert advice. Why else would anyone use them for most of their purchases? Out of some altruistic intention to support the brick and mortar guy, regardless of the quality of service?

    I guess I should also add that I know there are some great LHBSs. I've been to some of them, but in my experience they are the exception.
     
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  17. Euclid34

    Euclid34 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2012

    Haha, yes I am hesitant to blame the LBHS emplyee but he certainly didnt drive the point home. I was hesitant to follow through the 'hot' rehydrate in the first place but i should have paused at that point and looked into it. I was the one that threw it in the hot water, not him!

    I expected my first batch to be a big learning experience and I have enjoyed the process thus far. I pitched a pack of dry US-05 and hopefully that will get going so I have something to enjoy at the end... at the very least, I am more familiar with the process for Batch 2!
     
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  18. Buck89

    Buck89 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,782) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Keep it up! This is a great hobby, and you will learn tons from these threads. In my personal experience as a relative noob (15+ brews), I quickly learned many strengths (consistently crushed grains, for one) and limitations of my LHBS.
     
  19. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    At what point are folks around here willing to shift blame to someone else for not understanding that most things don't live above a certain temperature? My base understanding of biology really isn't that far beyond the A I received in 10th grade.
    Let's stop blaming LHBS employees for customers not performing due diligence.
    There are definitely a lot of sub-par LHBS employees out there, but personally, everything bad that's happened to one of my brews was on me.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I dunno. Newbies rely on what supposed experts tell them. So if the LHBS wants happy, returning customers, they need to get their shit right. But I would agree that there's a shared responsibility. If I worked at a LHBS, I would also tell every newbie to read "How to Brew." Which happens to contain good dry yeast rehydration instructions.
     
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