Did I make a mistake with my yeast starter?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Providence, Apr 4, 2020.

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  1. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hey folks. I haven't been in this forum in a minute. Figured I'd hit you all up with this question, as I know there is a ton of expertise in here.

    My question is, can a yeast starter be "too big"? Or, perhaps a better way to ask is, can it be "too much?"

    I made a yeast starter following a recipe in a video I found online. I boiled 100g of DME with 1200ml of water for ten minutes, cooled it, and tossed in a packet of Safale-04. The resulting starter nearly filled my flask. I don't recall my yeast starters being this big. I've made them before and they didn't take up as much space in my flask. I don't now what recipe I used to follow, but, whatever it made, wasn't nearly as much as this. In any event, I wonder if I have made too much and, when I toss it in the wort, if it's going to greatly increase the OG.

    Anyways, I'm obviously not very good at any of this, so I figured I'd ask you all.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. Scope4Beer

    Scope4Beer Zealot (677) Sep 28, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Outside of the volume of the starter (which I'm not sure is appropriate or not, based on age of yeast, OG of beer, volume of beer, stir plate, etc.), one thing you can do and which I always do is crash the starter for ~24hrs in the fridge. The yeast will settle to the bottom of the flask nicely and you can decant off the spent wort before you pitch. This will negate any effects on your beer's OG (which is probably negligible at best anyway) and prevent the oxidized spent wort from getting in contact with the beer.
     
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  3. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    If the krausen filled your flask (I assume a 2 liter flask?) then the yeast must have been viable, and you used the right amount. It should be fine for your wort, but I would also recommend what @Scope4Beer has suggested, and crash the starter in the friidge for a couple of days before decanting and throwing it into the wort.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Starter size is dependent on how many cells you are starting with and how many cells you want to pitch into your beer wort. There are several good yeast calculators out there.

    ETA: regardless of the starter volume you need, the ratio of DME to water is typically more like more like 100 grams to 1 liter.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Firstly, the dry yeast manufacturers do not recommend that you make a starter with their products. Just sprinkle the dry yeast on top of your wort in the fermenter.

    If you are brewing a high gravity batch (e.g., Barleywine) you should use more than one sachet.

    Cheers!
     
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  6. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Good point, Jack! I missed that he was using dry yeast. You can also rehydrate dry yeast as per the insturctions provided in their site (i.e. sprinkling the yeast in ten times its own weight of sterile water or wort for 30 minutes ).
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That is indeed an option but not really necessary nowadays. Do you subscribe to BYO magazine? If so, there is an article entitled "Optimizing Dry Yeast. To Direct-Pitch or Rehydrate: That is the Question" in the September 2019 issue.

    Cheers!
     
  8. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Yes, I do get BYO Magazine. Thanks for the information - I'll check it out.
     
  9. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Great article, Jack! I'm going to save myself a lot of fuss and bother in the future by just sprinkling the yeast on the surface of the beer.
     
  10. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Jack. It's been a long time my friend. You probably don't remember me. Many moons ago you sent me a bottle of your home brewed czech pils, which was wonderful. Good to see you're still schooling people on home brewing.

    The last few batches of home brew I have done have all failed to drop as much as they needed to in their gravity. I wondered if it might be because I weren't using enough yeast, so I figured I'd go with starter. Seems like that's not it. Anyways, thanks.
     
  11. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The biggest issue I see with using a starter for dry yeast is then you actually have to oxygenate the wort and most homebrewers aren’t oxygenating their wort enough unless you have pure O2. With dry yeast out of the package you don’t need to oxygenate. If one pack isn’t enough I’d personally open another pack before making a starter.
     
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  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    This is what I would do also. But I would do it because dry yeast is cheap, not because it's somehow unsuitable for propagation. If I had dry yeast (but not enough of it), and a brewing schedule that didn't allow me to buy more in time for brew day, I absolutely would make a starter. And of course, I'd oxygenate the beer wort before pitching.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I most certainly do remember you!
    Ironically last evening I drank a bottle of homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner. I love this beer; I brew a batch every year.
    Can you please provide more details here? The final gravity that is achieved is also a function of the fermentablity of the wort. If for some reason you are achieving a less fermentable wort with the exception of certain yeast strains (e.g., Saison yeast strains) the yeast aspect will not 'solve' this issue.

    Also, are these beers not pleasing to drink?

    Cheers!
     
  14. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Glad to hear you're still making the Bo' pils. So very tasty. More likely than not my wort isn't as fermentable as it should be. I've been doing 3 gallon Brew In a Bag (BIAB) kits purchased from northerbrewer for a while. What tends to happen is I hit the OG and then the yeast does it's thing, but brings it done to a point that seems too high to me. I say this because they'll be beers that should have an abv of like 6%, but now they'll be at like 4.9% (not actual numbers, just examples). The other thing that is happening with some, though not all, of my recent batches, is that I am getting absolute gushers when I open them. I had done a brown ale and every bottle I open comes flowing out the top like crazy. I'm wondering if it's excess sugars that didn't ferment out. Again, I obviously know very little about any of this.

    Regarding the starter I made, I did indeed cold crash it and poor off much of the liquid. Now, I'm wondering how long I can keep this yeast in my fridge? I was hoping to brew today, but, well, shit is crazy right now. Not sure when I'll actually have a chance to brew, so I'm wondering how long I can hold on to this stuff before it is no longer good to use?
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Gushers can mean any of the following...
    - Too much priming sugar
    - Infection
    - Hop Creep
    - Attenuation wasn't finished when beer was bottled

    Given that you are consistently not getting the attenuation you expect before bottling (and assuming the expectations are reasonable), I'd be looking at the last possibility.
     
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  16. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks man, I appreciate the info. Any thoughts on how long a yeast starter lasts in the fridge? I thought I'd be using it the other day, but it looks like I'll need to wait a bit. Thanks again for all the info.
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If it's going to sit more than, say, a week or so, I'd recommend using a yeast starter calculator to figure out how much yeast you probably had, how much will probably by left on your new brew date, and then decide if you need to increase the amount of yeast again. Sorry, but there's no definitive answer to "how long does yeast last?"

    Or, you could throw caution to the wind and just roll with whatever you have. It will make beer.
     
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  18. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks again!
     
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