Diluting Extract to Double Batch Size

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Skeeter17, Jun 1, 2021.

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  1. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Devotee (388) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Trader

    Hi everyone!

    My coworker has recently started brewing with Cooper’s kits and wants me to show him how I brew extract without buying kits.

    Since we will be brewing together on one set of equipment I thought we could turn this into a fun experiment for dilution and fermenting if I do a high gravity brew and dilute it before going to the fermenter so we each ferment 5 gal. I’ll ferment in my ferment fridge and he will ferment in his garage.

    I’d like a sanity check from someone (you all) for this extract dilution idea before I wreck 10gals of beer.

    Here’s my plan:

    Start as a normal 5 gal batch with about 6.5gal pre-boil and steep all 10 gal worth of flaked oats. I’ll start with the liquid extract like it’s a 5 gal batch, and to help with color and hop utilization I’ll hop like it’s a 10gal batch. I’ll add the additional extract after the 30 min hop addition. Big hop addition at flame out, and then I’ll throw in the wort chiller and dilute to 1.075 OG. Approximately doubling the batch size.

    Has anyone ever done something like this? Did it turn out alright?

    We’re just brewing for fun so I’m not too worried about the color darkening or being off-style, but I’m not sure if this is the best way to try and protect the hop flavor/aroma.

    Let me know what you think!

    Here’s the recipe if you’re curious, laid out how I plan to high gravity brew and dilute it.

    6lb Extra light LME
    3lb Extra light DME
    4lb Flaked Oats, steeped
    2oz Galaxy @ 60min
    1oz Amarillo @ 30min
    6lb Extra light LME @ 29min
    3lb Extra light DME @ 29min
    3oz Amarillo @ 0min
    2oz Galaxy @ 0min

    Dilute/mix with ~5gal of boiled and chilled water.

    Separate to 2 separate 6 gal carboy. Pitch with Safale S04

    3 oz Amarillo (per 5 gal ferment) dry hop after first day of fermenting.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Flaked Oats need to be mashed along with a diastatic Base Malt. If you just steep them by themselves, the starches wont be converted to sugar/dextrins.
     
  3. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Devotee (388) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Trader

    Doing it this way, won’t the starches give more body to the beer instead of converting to sugar?
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If they stay dissolved/suspended, sure, I guess so. They'll also provide food for spoilage microbes.
     
  5. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Devotee (388) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Trader


    I didn’t know I’d been doing it wrong. I take it that it’s not a recommended practice?

    Any substitution you’d recommend trying?
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you want the starches of the Flaked Oats to be converted you just need to add some base malt to enable proper conversion; the base malt will provide enzymes. There is some overlap in the steeping and mashing process with the difference being you want to exercise more control during mashing:
    • Maintain a given temperature (e.g., 153 degrees F) for the duration of the hot steep (e.g., 1 hour).
    • Use a grain to water ratio somewhere between 1-2 quarts of water per pound of grains
    There is also a consideration of maintaining a proper mash pH but the two above will get you pretty close.

    Maybe use 2 lbs. of Pale Malt and 2 lbs. of Flaked Oats for your mash/steep.

    Or just nix the Flaked Oats and just use malt extract for this batch. Add more extract to achieve your target OG.

    Cheers!

    P.S. You could also steep a bit of crystal malt if you desire some color addition and some flavor from the crystal malt.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It's definitely not a common or recommended (by me, at least) practice. Have you read "How to Brew?" It has a good discussion on steeping vs mashing. But the TLDR version is that steepable malts include caramel/crystal malts and deeply roasted malts. Other specialty grains need to be mashed along with a diastatic base malt.
     
  8. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Devotee (388) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Trader

    Thanks for the info!

    If I convert the starches from the oats to sugar they’ll affect my OG and be consumed during ferment, right?

    But if I just steep the oats and leave be starch alone, the end beer will have starches in it so that it is opaque?

    Are there an problems with not converting the starch? I’ve followed a similar process to this a few times before and liked the beer, but now I’m wondering if it was a fluke...
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, the sugars that result from mashing the Flaked Oats with a base malt will affect (i.e., increase) the OG and be fermented.
    I am unsure about this.
    The potential issue is what was discussed above that starch in the resulting beer is a potential source of food for unwanted microorganism (e.g., bacteria) in the beer. If you consume your beers quickly and/or have absolutely fantastic sanitation practices maybe this is a minimal issue?

    Cheers!
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    They will affect OG. And FG. Most of the sugars will ferment. Some of the sugars (a portion of the matotriose) and all of the higher dextrins (carbs that are bigger than sugars but smaller than starches) will not. The proteins from the flaked oats are not consumed by yeast. They are what part of what normally makes hazy beers hazy, in normal beers (e.g. NEIPAs) where flaked oats are mashed along with a base malt.

    Possibly. It will definitely have starches in it. They might make the beer opaque, if they don't settle out, as previously mentioned. And even if they do settle out, they'll get stirred up to some extent when you pour (if bottling).


    I feel like this has been covered.
     
  11. BetaAcid

    BetaAcid Initiate (0) May 10, 2009 Connecticut

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  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I feel pretty confident that anyone who can get LME, DME, flaked oats, Galaxy, and Amarillo hops can figure out how to get some 2-row malt. And how to read "How to Brew."

    Saliva contains a form of Alpha Amylase. So, diastatic spit. But I'm not clicking on what I'm guessing is a pretty gross link.
     
    BetaAcid likes this.
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