Don't Secondary

more so need it to clean my beer up in conjunction with cold crashing. Otherwise my beers turn out a mess at the bottom with dead yeast shooting up from carbonation. got a new fermentor that sort of conical like. just drain the primary yeast into the collection area then let it go and repeat again when secondary fermentation is done. no transferring necessary which is a PIA from the old siphon transfer method.

 

I go to the secondary into a keg most of the time -- especially lately where I'm dry hopping in both primary and secondary to maximize aroma and juiciness w my IPAs and DIPAs. Tooled up this winter w a better fermenter and spunding valve to make pressurized transfers a breeze. Do the same going from secondary to serving keg. Highly recommend a spunding valve....easy and cheap to make.

 

I guess what constitutes negligible, or noticeable in the resulting beer, is really the issue. I don't know anyone who has tried closed transfers that does not believe their hoppy beers have improved. Could be mass hysteria, but I doubt it.

 

I like your secondary. What is the model (e.g. size), and where can you purchase it?

 

Love the Christmas tree stand CO2 cylinder holder.

 

But again the question is "how much"? Closed systems are obviously better than open systems, but does a one-minute exposure to a small surface area of beer make that much difference to 5 gallons? I wonder if there have been any studies to indicate how much exposure to air (time and surface area) is actually noticeable? Have we all been overly paranoid about air exposure all along?

Just for a test, I just transferred 5 gallons of beer in a carboy to a keg. Rather than flush out the air in the air pocket with CO2, I left it in, and then began to pressurize the keg. I'll check the taste (compared to the immediate previous batch) when the keg is fully pressurized in a couple of weeks. This is much more than just a brief exposure of air to the surface area of the beer, since I'm now introducing the entire volume of air in the pocket directly into the beer.

 

I don't know about any studies, just the opinions of people who have done it both ways.

 

But that is comparing complete open systems to complete closed systems. I'm specifically only wondering about the effect of say, a five minute exposure to air on the surface area of beer in a keg.

Based on how long it takes to just have beer absorb CO2 when carbonating a keg under pressure, I would assume that a five minute exposure of the beer to air without agitation, under normal atmospheric pressure would be almost negligible.

 

it's a Speidel 30L fermenter made in Germany. Recommend upgrading to the metal valves vs. the plastic ones that come stock. You can get them in multiple sizes at MoreBeer.com. Love this fermenter.

 

It would be a great improvement to what I have. Does it come with the attachment that you connect your keg to? Or did you add it yourself. I already have the spunding valve which I made a couple of years ago, but have rarely used.

 

It comes w plastic valves that you can easily attach hose/clamps to for creating the pluming to the keg and from the c02 tank.

 

Thanks - it has a lot of features I like. I'll look into it.

 

Btw -- I should have mentioned- @GetMeAnIPA recommended the Speidel fermenter to me last fall -- he's also got one and has he great luck brewing w it. I tried one of his NE IPAs and it was professional quality....

 

Very rarely unless it's a sour beer, high avg or I don't have a free keg. I did secondary everything until about 5 years ago though. Learned from the Papazian books.

 

A long time ago I sent a keg of Pilsner to the NHC. It had brilliant clarity. it was driven in my car, then handed over to the cellar crew. On club night it was a cloudy mess. The yeast that had dropped out had been agitated into the beer. It poured cloudy and yeasty all night. I was bummed.

Now I jump beers to a fresh purged keg. The beer pours crisp and clear. I am happy.

 

I have both carboys and a conical stainless in house. So it depends on what I'm using for primary. If it's flat bottom, I try to get it off the yeast because those are also typically longer term projects. If it's the stainless, I just yeast off.

 

Yes, as long as the fermentation temps aren't in the high 70s. I'm sure that technically there's more esters but below my level of perception, especially once they get into the fridge for any length of time.
People expend a lot of worry about "true to style guidelines" instead of just creating a beer they love and can replicate easily.

 

I'd agree with your approach. Once you start to "lager" cold enough the yeast will fall out of suspension and hibernate (not die) and continue to work at a very low respiratory rate. The layer of living yeast will create a barrier between the beer and the trub/dead yeast below it. Racking out carefully won't disturb the undesirable stuff so you'll get clear beer.

But if you're bottling your lager beer i still think it makes sense to do so sooner rather than later with minimal priming sugar and let the last active fermentation do the carbonating as much as possible.

 

Yes, quality of life is always predicated on the length of our dip tubes.

 

As I've told my sons from the time they were toddlers, "if you mess with it long enough, it'll break."