Dovetail appreciation thread

Fair enough. It’s fair to say it was an expensive beer to make. Arclight charges $20 and there’s a greater expense to operating in Chicago rather than rural Michigan

 

I don't hear them mentioned with the top Chicago breweries....given the positive feedback from everyone here, you have to assume if you aren't there, but moving in that direction I'd call it up and coming....

 

I think that has much more to do with lagers/German beers vs haze

 

Yup, that's my view as well. I look at Old Nation as a good example. Off-the-radar until they created M-43.

I'm sure Dovetail could produce kick ass NEIPAs or pastry stouts if they wanted. But, I'm glad they've found a niche and are churning out kick ass classics and "different" experimental beers.

 

That could be, but let's not forget we have a pretty good set of breweries here that are considered the best in the city but don't do hazy beers. I'm not knocking Dovetail, just trying to say you don't need to do haze to be considered one of the best.

 

Yeh but how many of those don’t do any IPAs?

 

Off Color?

 

Fair point! Regardless - I think we all know what @Nbrock24 is getting at. The haze and pastry is bringing more notoriety than other stuff these days.

 

I never said that. He mentioned haze, which Revolution and Half Acre don’t do. Yes, they make plenty of IPAs, which has driven them to the top craft breweries in the city, but they aren’t where the haze freaks go.

 

No stouts and no IPA's for Dovetail, the two most popular styles, ask your local bottle shop and they'll agree (haze is by far the most popular style at the moment). I think it's nice they are getting some love for the Euro styles, which they've nailed in everything I've tried.

 

Definitely not, but if haze is the top of the hype train right now, barrel aged stouts are 1A and IPAs are still way ahead of lagers.

I think it's cool they have found this niche - the fact they run a taproom with beers run through a coolship is really cool(ship). And I really like the concept of doing some Belgian style sour sour beers. They're not in the easiest location for me to go there very often (3 years ago, would have been a different story), so I hope they do some more to-go options in the future.

 

By the same token, couldn't the haze and pastry be aversely affecting the brewers who are popular for doing them? Is anyone going to try the lager by the guy who puts out top pastry stouts or the gal who puts out top NEIPAS? It may be world class and every bit as good as dovetails, but if people are going for brewer's signature beers how will they know?

 

Yeah Dovetail is much more of a niche brewery than an up and coming one.

 

To me, Dovetail is a top three brewery in the city. No one is doing European styles even close to as good. The sole reason they don't have the buzz of Pipeworks, Corridor, Half Acre, etc. is that they don't do IPAs, imperial stouts, or any derivative styles thereof. It has nothing to do with the quality of their beer, which is incredibly high across the board.

I would argue that Off Color is not very hyped or sought after either, so they are not a good counter example as non-IPA brewery with hype. Their bottle releases basically never sell out (aside from proto-pastry stout Coffee Dino and the odd Side Project wild collab), and their taproom is only super busy when they have special events and guest taps. They are nowhere near as popular as Half Acre, Pipeworks, Rev, Forbidden Root, or Corridor (all of which are packed every weekend and many weeknights, save Pipeworks for obvious reasons).

All that said, I think the pricing is high, but it is not egregious. It would be a $30 750ml, and Crooked Stave, Funk Factory, Cascade, Jester King ($18/500ml), and others already charge that or around that.

Dovetail should absolutely be in the conversation when people talk about the best breweries in the city, and the only reason they aren't is because most people do not hold lagers and other Euro styles (besides lambic and saison) in the same esteem as hazies, IPAs in general, pastries, and imperial stouts. They are literally in the running for top 10 in the country in their niche, so to say they aren't a top brewery in their own city is mind-boggling to me, and the only explanation is style bias.

Edit: Easy evidence for style bias: this thread just broke into its third page, and Dovetail is around two years old as a brewery. The Saint Errant thread has seven pages, and they are under a year old. Saint Errant is good to very good in my opinion, but their reception seems much more mixed than Dovetail's general praise on these forums. I think Dovetail is obviously the superior brewery, but even if i didn't, the disparity of how much people talk about one versus the other is obvious, and it's because of the styles they brew. Saint Errant is strictly a pastry stout and haze specialist, and the forum shows how much more people care about that even on here where many don't seem as sold on those styles as the general public.

Okay, I am done now.

 

That's a little like saying a Honda Odyssey should be mentioned in the same breath as a Ferrari when talking about the best cars, the only reason that they aren't is because most people don't want to drive a mini-van....

 

You are proving my point for me. In my opinion Dovetail's standard Lager (and definitely their Rauchbier) are as good or better than any beer in the city. The general public and you simply do not think all beer styles are equally valid, and I think that is a fundamentally ignorant, closed-minded stance. You don't have to like something to appreciate how objectively well-crafted it is. I am not a huge J. Wakefield fan, for instance, but I can say they are doing the Florida weisse and pastry stout thing pretty damn well.

To stick with your analogy, assuming the Honda Odyssey is the best mini-van and Ferrari [insert model here] is the best super car (I don't know if this is the case), I think they do both deserve mentions as the best automobiles. Same for movie genres, music genres, cuisines, and so on. Some semblance of objectivity is important to me.

#minivanadvocate

 

I know what you're saying but I also think it's a ridiculous comparison. Just because beer nerds go crazy for hazy IPAs and barrel aged stouts doesn't mean that other styles are "worse." Dovetail's lager is one of the best beers made in the city of Chicago IMO. Just because beer nerds are not obsessed with lagers doesn't mean it's a worse beer.

 

I'll add to your point here. Would a brewery that makes mediocre hazy IPAs be "better" than Dovetail simply because they make a trendier style of beer? Non sense.

 

Link?

 

It's my opinion, so I dont really have a link. I guess I thought that was obvious. Sorry.

It is based on my experience having beers from what people would call the best in the country. My shortlist top ten from personal experience would be, in no order: Dovetail, New Glarus, Heater Allen, Chuckanut, Urban Chestnut, Suarez, Von Trapp, Live Oak, Olde Mecklenburg, and Bierstadt Lagerhaus. I'd give some outside shots to August Schell, Lazy Monk, Summit, Firestone Walker, Sierra Nevada, Sixpoint (as of late), Hill Farmstead, pFriem, Off Color, and Utepils (probably forgetting someone). I haven't had the pleasure of Austin Beer Garden yet.

You can also base it on how well their beers score here compared to the same styles from other breweries, but that has its own problems (mainly representative sample sizes).

Regardless, I do not think there is much argument against them being a top brewery in the city outside of what essentially boils down to, "Lagers aren't sexy," which is pretty stupid.