Dovetail Brewery (2023)

I would not deny what you perceive, but the "sourness" you're experiencing is not biological -- we confirmed this through lab and sensory testing this batch.

That being said, what can be described as sourness as compared to the other Viennas you drinking may be a perception in acidity through malt, water profile, or hops. I think the particular hop we use for our Vienna could be perceived as fruity and tart as it ages, but it's not sour.

Anyway, I hope there are more fun things I'm tagged in this thread in the future!

 

I've been drinking craft beer for 30+ years and I've never had a Vienna that could "be perceived as fruity and tart from the hops used." You've definitely succeeded in producing an interesting/unique/different/obscure take on the style.

 

I've got something more fun...I was a longtime lager hater until, in 2020, I tried Dovetail's apparently controversial Vienna Lager.

Game changer for me. I couldn't get enough.

These days, I drink as many lagers as I do ales.

So, thanks for changing my (beer) life!

 

FTFY.

 

Um, I'd thank you not to "fix" anything for me moving forward.

 

Easy enough -- consider me gone Mr. Warmth.

 

I suppose if you were used to mainly ales and didn't know what a true Vienna style lager is supposed to taste like it could be appealing to you. To each their own but the beer I had is as far from the vienna style as any vienna I've ever had in my 3,000+ beer reviews. Maybe it's ok when that hop they used that makes it tart and fruity doesn't have any age on it. Could be.

 

Man, I can't even give Mr. Worm his flowers for making a difference in a beer nerd's life.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

Styrian Golding — that’s the hop. It could be perceived as lemon-like. Whether that’s what you’re perceiving, I don’t know.

I’m merely commented because I felt it was important to differentiate “sour” as an infection versus something that is perceived due to a process or ingredient. We found it wasn’t the former.

If this isn’t your favorite Vienna, that’s fine. There’s room in this world for different expressions of beer. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about banging the drum regarding the clarity of our Kölsch. To some, it’s not “authentic” or by style — we have never claimed to be that. That’s never been a goal of what we do.

 

Ms Worm

 

I know the lemon impression some hops give. That's not what this was.

The cans were not filled properly. I could almost squeeze and crush it there was so much give to the cans. I'm guessing something in the canning process caused the beer to go bad.

BTW--I'm not sure why you'd want a hop that can give off an impression like lemons in a Vienna style beer but I guess do what you do. Personally I'd want something that can add a touch of spiciness without the chance of it adding lemon sourness.

Don't worry about me. I rarely get someone near Chicago to get me beers from there and if I get the chance again I'll be focusing on places that stay true to style with their craft lagers and don't have cloudy Vienna's with lemony hops.

 

Sounds like you already determined it was a canning issue, so maybe this particular 4-pack wasn’t the best example of Dovetail’s Vienna and can’t really be judged to style? I get your point about looking for “true” but styles do leave wiggle room and I’d venture to say that in your 3,000+ reviews you’ve run across a fair number of beers that color outside the lines. Maybe that’s kind of what’s made US craft beer what it is today?

I actually do kind of agree with you on the Vienna - it’s not my favorite style to begin with but I find Dovetail’s to be a little too full-bodied for my lager preference. Never felt the hops were out of place though. In general, I prefer more crispness in my lighter spectrum lagers and stay away from their Helles for similar reasons. I realize it’s an ale but I do love their Kolsch, and I almost always dig their darker offerings. Schwarzbier, Bock, Dunkel … yum.

 

(First off...sorry for three replies. I couldn't get it to quote properly with all this parts in one post.)

Exactly. I noted how the can almost felt like you could crush it open in an earlier post. It's clearly not the way it should taste unless that is the way they want it to taste. I can't believe that would be the case as a majority of reviews have not mentioned this sour flavor. The brewery guy is the one who wanted to know details on the canning lot # and dates and then basically said it wasn't infected because they tested it. Perhaps it was fine before it was canned. I don't know. But I highly doubt Styrian Golding hops would ever in a million years do this to a beer. But that was brought up as a reason and if that truly is what can happen then it probably isn't a great hop for a Vienna when it tastes more like a sour beer than a Vienna lager. But like I said I really don't think the Styrian Golding hops are the issue.

 

Sure I've had some that color outside the lines and generally I'm not a fan of beers such as Pilsners with IPA style hops, etc. But that wasn't the case here. The hop used certainly would fit with this beer in theory. The cloudy, hazy look is a negative for me but if it tastes flat-out fantastic I could look past that so I guess I do allow a little wiggle room. This beer was off though. I still need to get it to a guy I know who is an excellent at the local brewery. I'll be curious how he describes this.

 

I thought their Helles was solid and their Hefe above average so I'm not trying to rip this place but I'm not going to buy anymore if this is what they consider a vienna should taste like.. If I had been told by brewer guy the beer was likely poor due to canning issues or whatever I'd pull my review but right now he's making it sound like this is what it is designed to taste like.

 

1. I’ve already established I was not a brewery “guy”

2. I asked for batch number because I wanted to give your feedback due diligence and we did both lab and sensory testing to determine no, that it was not a batch-wide issue. You didn’t mention a low fill.

3. Styrian Golding is more than appropriate for the beer; it is also spicy and herbal. Lemon-like is just one part of its flavor.

4. We already established Dovetail beer is unfiltered, which may not be traditional in appearance, esp for Kölsch, but it’s fine for us.

I get that you’ve been drinking beer a long time and this idea of a “true Vienna” but if there’s implication there’s a batch-wide infection issue with our beer — which is how I interpreted your post — then yes, I will look into it and reply.

I regret it all lol

 

Do I even want to admit to this lol — this thread got increasingly mean