Dry hop secondary container

I think corny kegs are by far the best choice for dry hopping. The wide opening makes things much easier than trying to get a hop sock in/out of the narrow neck of a carboy. Oxygen is the supreme enemy of hoppy American beers, it doesn’t take much air to lead to a quick death for a great IPA. I was never really happy with my hoppy beers until I started keg hopping and force carbonating, my bottle conditioned IPAs always died off too much over the two weeks spent warm waiting for carbonation.

 

I wouldn't use a bucket for a secondary, because of the O2 issue, whether dry hopping or not. To me, if you don't want to dry hop in the primary, it comes down dry hopping in a (secondary) carboy or a keg.

Why do you feel your beers are clearer looking when using a secondary, as opposed to the same amount of extra time in the primary?

 

The only beers that I secondary are big beers. Before I keged I would secondary in plastic buckets with no noticable oxidation. I don't recomend long term storage in plastic.

 

But that's what I'm asking. What's the theory that makes beer that has been in a secondary clearer than beer that has been in an extended primary for the same amount of time?

 

I will never dryhop in anything but a corny keg ever again. It's just so superior.

Outside a corny, bucket due to ease of hop removal.

 

I always secondary in glass carboy. The reasons:
I never use finings, so I secondary to help clear the beer.
I can see through the glass. I usually secondary for two weeks (average), but if it needs another week to clear up I can see it without opening.
But the main reason: I only have 1 bucket and 1 carboy.

I have left beers in plastic bucket for 4 - 5 weeks with no oxidation problems. The problems I did have where that my beer had finished fermenting but I was still getting bubbles in my airlock. I asked around and it was assumed either that the yeast was feeding on dead yeast and producing c02, or that there where c02 pockets escaping. Either way the activity was preventing the beer from clearing.

I could use one of my kegs for secondary, but I always have a fair amount of yeast sediment in my secondary. So I would have to siphon it from the secondary fermentation keg to a serving keg. Other wise the first few beers would be loaded with yeast sediment.

 

That is what is great about kegs, just suck out the sediment with the first pint or two and the beer is clear.

 

“I have always heard that plastic is worse for secondary due to oxygen permeabiity of the plastic, and have therefore always used glass for secondarys.”

It is indeed a fact that plastic is not oxygen impermeable while glass is oxygen impermeable. The ‘question’ is how much oxygen is diffused across the plastic fermenters during the timeframe of dry hopping? The ‘answer’ to this ‘question’ is dependent on the factors:

· What is the oxygen permeability of the plastic material (i.e., O2 permeability coefficient of the material)

· The geometry of the bucket (i.e., how much surface area)

· The time duration

· Maybe other variables?

I personally am unaware of any analysis that has been published to provide an ‘answer’ to the above ‘question’.

So, if you want to be ‘conservative’ with respect to possible effects of oxidation you should perform your dry hop in a secondary which is impermeable to oxygen (e.g., a glass carboy, stainless steel keg).

I fully recognize that: “I didn't really want this to become primary vs secondary thread.”

Please permit me to provide some of my personal experiences:

I dry hop in my primary fermenter. My schedule is typically one week of primary fermentation and two weeks of dry hopping for a total of three weeks in the bucket. I personally am happy with the resulting beers. I personally do not think that I suffer from ‘excess’ oxidation and I also am very happy with the clarity of the resulting beers.

I have conducted a primary in a bucket for up to 4-5 weeks; this is not a typical timeframe but I have not noticed any ill effects of oxygen in the beers I have in the bucket for several weeks. I have some homebrewed bottled beers that are over a year old and there is in stereotypical flavors of oxidation; no cardboard or sherry-like flavors.

Cheers!

 

Well, if you're taking a poll: it depends on how much hop aroma I want in a given beer. Most of the time, I will dry hop in the carboy (which in my case is a better bottle, btw--I don't think oxygen permeability is an issue with those anymore). If I really want a lot of aroma, I will also add some to the keg. I could certainly understand someone wanting to do all of their dry hopping in the keg, and I do agree that's probably the most efficient, but I like to minimize the amount going into the keg to minimize the potential for clogging and sediment.

 

I do it in the Primary and the keg depending on the number of dry hopping cycles I want... Will wait till fermentation subsides in primary and the yeast has had enough time to clean up any off flavors (10-12 days), I'll then fine to drop the yeast, and add pellets without a hop bag. After 7-10 days the pellets drop to the bottom, I'll rack into a keg and then dry hop again with pellets or leaf hops (Both in a Muslin bag suspended with floss) as desired. First pint is cloudy with any hop leafs or sludge that escapes the bag, and the rest of the beer is clear.

 

Some good points there. While I would never rack beer into a bucket for secondary, I would (if I still used buckets) leave it in primary for an equivalent extended time. When you rack, you lose the CO2 blanket.

 

I consider a big beer anything over 8.5%. I would leave my big beer on the yeast for 3 weeks then rack to a secondary for another 2 weeks then bottle. Now I rack to a keg then bottle.

 

I agree that you lose your co2 blanket when you transfer to a secondary but this also happens when you pop the top of your primary to dry hop.

 

“When you rack, you lose the CO2 blanket.” That is indeed true but if my understanding of Physics is correct this is really not an issue in the context of oxidation.

It has been a very long time since I took Physics so hopefully somebody who is a practicing Physicist will chime in and correct any mistakes or misrepresentations I may make.

The ‘issue’ of oxidation of homebrew in plastic buckets is ‘defined’ by Dalton’s Law of Partial Pressures and Frick’s Law.

Dalton’s law of partial pressures ‘defines’ that the total pressure within a vessel (a homebrew bucket) is an addition of all of the pressures of the different gases within the vessel. The ‘dominant’ gas in a homebrew bucket during active fermentation is CO2 but there is also Nitrogen, Oxygen, etc. in the wort (in solution) and within the headspace. A ‘notion’ is that during active fermentation there is little concern about Oxygen (and possible oxidation effects) since during the active outgassing some of the other gas molecules (e.g., N2, O2, etc.) are ‘scrubbed out’ along with departing CO2.

When the active fermentation ceases, then this is where Frick’s Law comes more into play. Within the liquid (beer now) there are gases in solution (N2, O2, CO2, etc.) Outside of the bucket is air. Frick’s Law basically defines that gas types will diffuse from areas of higher concentration to areas of lower concentration; this is done on an individual gas type basis. So, the fact that there is ‘a lot’ of CO2 in the bucket (both in solution in the beer and the headspace) has no effect on oxygen diffusion. If there is more oxygen (in the air) outside the bucket then is inside the bucket (in solution in the beer and headspace) then oxygen will indeed diffuse into the bucket. The rate of diffusion is dependent on the oxygen permeability of the bucket and difference in oxygen concentration on the two sides of the bucket.

So, dry hopping within the primary still places the beer at potential risk of oxidation. My personal experience has been that for my beers I have not noticed any oxidation effects, where effects is defined by the development of oxidation off flavors of cardboard or sherry-like flavors, in my homebrewed beers even with a lot of age on them (1 year plus).

Cheers!

 

My brain started to hurt from reading this! Just kidding,thanks for the information!

 

In a primary bucket (with a good seal), O2 enters very slowly. In a secondary bucket, racking has introduced O2 more directly (instantly) into the bucket (in the place of CO2).

 

“. why would it be objectionable to rack to a plastic bucket as a secondary?”

As Vikeman mentioned, during the racking process you will be introducing ‘more’ oxygen than would occur if you just dry hopped within the primary.

I have no means to quantify the ‘risks’ of oxidation between the two methods of:

· Dry hop in the primary

· Rack from primary to a secondary bucket and dry hop

There is no denying that just keeping the beer within the primary will result in less oxidation occurring.

Cheers!