So I've been having a bit of a beer crush on Trillium's Sunshower. It's an 8.5% "super saison" that's been liberally dry hopped with Amarillo. My normal Saison routine includes keeping the fermentation as warm as possible and I normally go through my typical starter practices. I've read quite a few other people skip the starter to further stress the yeast and get more of that spicy peppery finish, however that's so far outside my comfort zone, especially with a difficult yeast like WLP565 in a beer this big. Anyone have relevant experience that they care to share?
I don't know who those other people are, but I would not recommend underpitching a 3724/WLP565 saison. Not because the yeast is finicky, but because I don't think the result would necessarily be an improvement. Also, FWIW I never go above 80F-ish with 3724.
Ditto. If you really want some peppery notes consider a touch of Grains of Paradise. This is how Ommegang does it (Hennepin), with good results. I've also had been happy using American hops to DH my Saisons. Pretty sure this isn't to style . . . but who cares?
Interesting that you're keeping it to 80, do you mind if I ask about how long you have generally seen 3724/WLP565 take to ferment out completely at that temp? Can I assume that you're using a brew belt type heater to get +10F over room temp?
Yes, I use a Johnson A419 temp controller with a heat wrap. Patience is key, and it can take as long as 6 weeks, though usually not that long. Way back when, I fermented with 3724 at higher temps. It was faster, but I didn't love the result. Too phenolic for me, and not in a delicious peppery way. But YMMV.
Sometimes I'll pitch a more attenuative yeast with 3724, something clean like 1056. More often a combo of 3724/3711.
I've only pitched both at the same time. Neither 1056 nor 3711 obscure 3724's phenolics and the saison still ends up peppery and earthy, while attenuating fully at lower (normal?) fermentation temperatures. Using the combo of 3724/3711 is quite nice with a measured dose of pre- & post-boil American hops, as the esters from the 3711 support hop flavor and aroma. My experience with fermenting 3724 at normal-ish fermentation temperatures is that the yeast stalls. Granted I don't (and will not) wait 6 weeks for primary fermentation. Pitching an additional yeast known for quick attenuation obviates 3724's finicky issues, while preserving the phenolic profile.
If you are planning to underpitch, I would plan on finishing off with a Brett strain during a long secondary.
dupont can absolutely crawl toward to the last 20% of attenuation, so we've added a bit of 3711 to subsequent batches. not necessary if you aren't in a rush. we noticed slightly different finished fermentation character, but the beer is done in 5 days instead of 23-26. dupont needs plenty of oxygen, so if just aerating, particularly for beer that finishes at higher abv like sunshower, that won't cut it. we cool sunshower in to ~68F, then free rise to terminal. in an insulated 10bbl tank, that'll get to mid 80s before leveling off. you have a very different surface to volume and insulation situation when homebrewing, so insulating + gently heating w/ escalating temps to mimic this type of slow ramp might emulate the same conditions in the larger scale.
JC, thanks for taking the time to respond with these great details. I'm a big fan of what you're doing and it's always awesome to have someone take the time to help out a small time home brewer. I was lucky enough to be passing through on the date of the American Sours signing and sour release, both linage beers were fantastic as well.
Have you ever tried brewing with Wyeast 3724 where you pitched hot (mid-80s to 90) and kept it hot though out the fermentation? This is the recommended fermentation profile from Jess Caudill of Wyeast Labs. Cheers!
I havent...I've had good success w thE free rise approach, and while letting a ferment get up in to the mid/high 80s feels so counterintuitive, starting at those temps just seems...wrong. how do you keep it from ripping into 100+ temps w/ out hitting it w glycol? And when you do try to cool it, that seems to stall out the yeast mid ferment...
“….how do you keep it from ripping into 100+ temps w/ out hitting it w glycol?” That is indeed a valid concern when brewing at commercial volumes. On the homebrewing level (i.e., 5 gallons) it is relatively easy to keep the beer from getting too hot: you simply remove the heating source (which is a brewbelt for me). Cheers!
