eBay and Beer Sales

True: a local release does gain the same amount of profit no matter who is buying the beer. Dollars are dollars. Dark Lord Day was going to have the same amount of attendees (max capacity) whether it's local or tourists.

However, you see no issue with ticket agencies and scalpers buying tickets online or in person, then charging $400 per ticket? Again, someone will pay it (whomever hap the deepest pockets, as opposed to the long time local brewery supporter who is shut out). The question comes again back to: how does this benefit the community?

 

but suppose the producer imposes a 1 orange limit because they want to spread their name, or just prefer to get the oranges to more people. if the consumer then figures out a way to subvert the limit, is it just disrespectful to other consumers?

if you press hard enough, you'll eventually get the side you're (more or less) arguing against to say that benefit to the community is irrelevant, because the secondary market is inevitable. for some reason, people in this current beer argument won't outright say that this inevitability arises from humans not possessing free will or any form of self-control (not to mention any sort of moral imperative to act respectfully toward others). however, this is the only justification for their position.

...which makes it all the stranger to me that they mind regulation. i don't see what difference it makes in that situation if you're prohibited from, say, selling beer on ebay. in fact, given the obvious commitment to "humans cannot control themselves and must engage in profiteering if it is incentivized," you would think they would endorse prohibitions all the more (it would be the only way to benefit communities in the absence of personal responsibility).

it all seems very paradoxical and crazy, believing that regulation is the highest evil, but personal responsibility is impossible. unfortunately, it is not paradoxical. in the end, the tension is resolved by either believing in an elite group of responsible people, or (in truth) not being too intellectually committed to any of this, and simply waving it as an excuse for one's personal irresponsible behavior.

 

This really boggles my mind as well and makes me think twice about making trades and using trustees. Aren't we all looking to better the beer community as a whole, particularly in a community where the producers of what makes our community are overwhelmingly looking to do this as well?

 

Calm down there, Pahn, this isn't exactly an issue of profound moral importance. We're talking about freaking beer. There's no "exploitation" going on, period - brewers are getting paid what they're asking, and everyone else is only paying what they choose to pay. Maybe you think that your personal opinion should determine whether a mutually-agreed-upon transaction between two individuals is moral or not, but I personally prefer to butt out of other people's business.

For myself, I absolutely respect brewers' wishes in terms of not reselling their beers, and I'm not the biggest fan of other people ignoring their requests, but ultimately what other people do with their property is none of my concern.

As for your hand-wringing about the recognition of economic reality leading to moral decline - meh. Of course an individual is free to act against his or her economic self-interest in order to satisfy subjective moral/ethical feelings that are deemed more important (exactly like I choose not to resell valuable beers I own, even though I could definitely use the money!), but it's pointless to let your commitment to such intangible values blind you to the reality of how the world works.

 

I appreciate the fair and level headed discussion, allow me to continue it. If the farmer simply views selling blood oranges as a job, just a means to make a living then I agree. He made his money and it is of no concern to him.

What if it farmer is passionate about what he does, it is not just a job but his lifes work, and takes a tremendous amount of pride in delivering fresh produce at a reasonable cost to his friends, neighbors and local community. Wouldn't it be kinda shitty to buy up all his product and take that away from him? At the very least the farmer is disappointed the ability to deliver the product to its intended market in its intended form has been compromised. That is where I see respect for the producer coming in.

Brewers rarely view brewing as just a job, this is their passion and their life's work. While they are a business they are not like every other business.

 

Should probably be defined in the DSM.

 

are you? you posted in the "Alpine New Belgium DIPA Bottling Line Repair" thread:

you also said,

in the thread i referenced, you also made a post about reporting the reselling to alpine (apparently deleted). obviously, when it hits close to home, you're interested in exercising control. not quite as laissez-faire as you act.

 

i'm calm.

the larger issue about economics and morality is important though. i want to say "i don't understand why people try to push it to the side in virtue of this all being 'just beer,' as if little examples aren't indicative of larger views," but i'm pretty sure the answer is just that people don't want to talk about it.

which is good, because i have to go, so i must bow out of this Hot Talk for now.

edit:

the thing is, if everyone agreed that we should always think about other people and be responsible for how our actions affect the larger communities of which we're a part, it would be "just beer," and it would be no big deal when someone happens to grab 2 bottles of a 1 bottle release, or sells a 30 year old beer on ebay to a collector. slippery slope arguments are refuted by general responsibility. however, people seem to want to argue against general responsibility...

anyway, i really do have to go.

 

I think we are talking about a bottle of beer on ebay versus 100+ in a single shot.

 

so you can define the line between profit and profiteering? it's between 1 and 100 bottles?

 

You're right I should not.

 

Ebay is a joke and has been for a long time. Are there no better sites for beer trading?

 

Rarity is 100% objective. If there are 100,00 bottles.. it is not very rare. If there is only one bottle.. well then that's might rare.

 

In my life, I've had to compete for grades, jobs, military rank, women, (I won that competition), housing, and many other things. I will not compete for beer.

 

We're going in circles. . . ebay sellers send alcoholic beverages over state lines. So your point that it is not legal to ship or transport any alcoholic beverage over state lines is debunked by this very thread & ebay's existence, because as you acknowledge, it does happen, and its all legal.

Prosecutions of ebay sold beer in over 10 years = zero

 

So don't.

 

"One of one isn't rare. It just is."
-Chris Farley

 

as far as the farmer analogy. if he wants to sell them to friends and neighbors for a reasonable price, dont put them out for sale at the stand,where everyone that hears how great they are, can drive up and buy them.simple.

 

Welp. I guess I'm going to have to open up that dream beer bar with a reserve cellar menu I've been pondering about for years. What else am I going to do with all these whales I've been hoarding?

 

Two thoughts.

1) I'm glad they finally did it. It more readily brought the 'dark side' of our hobby out.
2) Dude, first world problems man. Seriously.