eBay and Beer Sales

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by OldSchoolGamer, Aug 1, 2012.

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  1. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (254) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan

    I love your passion and admire your respect for the community. Unfortunately, I fear capitalism is greater than idealism in this instance.
  2. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Yup. I have an excellent trading partner....but ISOs in that forum is a whole different thing. Kind of giving up on that.
  3. kzoobrew

    kzoobrew Meyvn (1,166) May 8, 2006 Michigan

    These arguments that eBay is cheaper than trading is based of an incredibly limited sample size, so small it should not be called a sample size, and is horribly misleading and inaccurate. Just because one person asked you for $180 worth of B5 does not mean that is the definitive price. I know plenty of people who got Rare and CBS for much less and did not require numerous rare releases. Sometimes it is just as much the person asking as it is the beer they are asking for.
  4. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (721) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    People ask for ridiculous things all the time, but it doesn't mean you need to do it. I'd laugh at somebody looking for $180 worth of beer for a Rare. Good chance that guy was also an Ebay lover...

    I traded for CBS for very reasonable stuff.

    Bramble has easily traded $4$ many times with other shelf releases. You shouldn't have much problem getting it for less than $50, though yes, you may need to give up something of value.

    Bottom line, is trading has a bit of a curve, but once you make some contacts, it is not hard to land just about anything at a reasonable price. I trade things reasonably, as do tons of other people. I'd love to see more new traders adopt the same attitude. It pays off big time in the long run. It's a community and we are supposed to look out for each other.
    kundog18, chase2634 and ShogoKawada like this.
  5. kzoobrew

    kzoobrew Meyvn (1,166) May 8, 2006 Michigan

    It is one side or the other IMO, people have to choose. I do not believe people applying capitalism and economics to the exchange of beer does anything overly positive for the community.
  6. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    It isn't misleading OR inaccurate. It's pure FACT based on my personal experience. In my experience - eBay is cheaper when trying for mass produced Chicago shelf wAlez.
    JavaNoire and afksports like this.
  7. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Dude I'll be sending a BA Speedway out for a case of Zombie Dust, and add some Alpine to make up the $4$ since the Speedway is cheaper. I don't play the King Henry Trading Unit game, but you basically need to to land mass produced shelf walez in that forum.
  8. pitweasel

    pitweasel Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2007 New York

    So you should be able to sell alcohol to a 12 year old with an eBay account?

    Right. Because this is America.

    (starts plotting move to less obnoxious country)
    brucedodds, Pahn and grassrootsVT like this.
  9. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Other countries are more obnoxious. Been to any in Europe? Not just as a tourist.....
  10. tbadiuk

    tbadiuk Aspirant (236) Feb 9, 2009 Canada

    There are decent traders out there. I've done 14 trades this year (all with people I've never traded with before) and all have ranged from "good" to "amazing". Maybe I just got lucky, but I'd like to think that that is not the case...

  11. WassailWilly

    WassailWilly Initiate (0) Sep 8, 2007 New York

    I for one am NOT happy should this come to pass.. This is still America and however you obtain said beer as long as you are of legal drinking age is fine by me !!
    nawset likes this.
  12. beernut

    beernut Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2008 New Jersey

    I've been exchanging a few emails with Shaun and I think he is a stand up guy, I see his points, although I don't fully 100% agree about the ebay (but he talked about trying to get legal parameters set in), but his emails clarified a few things that made it clearer to me.
  13. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (254) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan

    I agree, but I'm not sure the choice is ours anymore.
    mathematizer likes this.
  14. mikecharley

    mikecharley Disciple (398) Nov 6, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Do you think we will see an influx of new traders that are looking to unload their beers that were previously destined for the bay? Im already seeing new join dates that are obviously "vets" of the scene, and wonder

    Edit: prime example being goodspirits6
  15. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Yep. Some people, when they don't agree with something, like to force their views on others. That's what's wrong with 'Merica today! If I don't like something I just avoid it - instead of spoiling it for people who do like it. It's beer on eBay, it doesn't harm anyone.
    JavaNoire likes this.
  16. afksports

    afksports Initiate (0) Aug 22, 2010 New York

    Seeing grassrootsVT like this post = the consistency I needed to hear.
  17. JRod1969

    JRod1969 Zealot (574) Nov 23, 2010 New York

    I was trying to avoid this thread, as everyone has their views and no one is changing them, but gotta jump in a little.

    There are multiple problems at play in the beer world and some of them cause others while a solution to one might cause a problem for another. There is no perfect answer as the simple fact is that demand is greater than supply for the brews we all talk about. Specifically...

    Problem 1 - locals get screwed sometimes: Special releases are overcrowded and insane and therefore locals don't get quality access at them. This is partially due to Ebay re-salers and traders who can't attend other releases (so they overbuy at the ones they do attend).

    Solution for 1: Stop Ebay and trading (or make more beer which is easier said than done).

    Problem 2 - non-locals are screwed sometimes: Breweries are far apart and beer lovers are spread throughout the country and world, so a beer lover who wants to experience special releases needs to trade or buy on Ebay. This problem obviously becomes worse when Solution 1 is applied.

    Bear in mind anyone can say that Problems 1 and 2 are entitlement problems and they are, but they are for both locals and non-locals. No one is entitled to anything regardless of where they live.

    At the end of the day, some people will sell beer for too much and some will demand too much in trade, but if we act like a community and apply community peer pressure/good behavior modeling, the majority of trades and sales could be even/reasonable. An example is when you eventually find a solid trading partner and then get a great rare beer and think, hey I'll send it to him for whatever he has (rather than thinking, how can I flip this for more?). Or when you bring a beast to a tasting or just bring some great stuff back from business trips for your local BAs.

    Will there still be lopsided trade demands and an occasional Ebay sale? Yes. Will it be annoying? Yes. Will there be ridiculous ISOs and Buy it Now options? Yes. Who cares? Let it go. Don't participate in them. Personally, I haven't used Ebay for beer, but I also live in NY and have access to rare stuff that is tradeable, so I don't need to. If I didn’t live here, I might.

    Shutting down Ebay just screws the BAs who live in non-beer areas of the country/world. If you live in South Dakota, how are you supposed to try what our country's finest breweries have to offer? You have minimal local trade ammo. Sure with Ebay you'll pay more, but it's still less than flying somewhere and getting fired for missing work. Are you entitled to this? No, but cmon, this is a hobby. None of us are entitled to anything. Shaun can make smaller batches and close the pub and just share with friends and it’s not like we can kick the door in and demand Ann.

    It really comes down to who brewers think should drink their beer. Some say whoever wants it and that level of want is expressed through trading, buying, traveling efforts. Others will say locals only and that is where the brewery restrictions kick in.

    Personally, I think a brewery should control only what it does. You don't want things sold or traded. No worries. Don't bottle or give growlers. Problem solved, except for the rare bathroom hand bottles (PtY). You have to bottle for some reason?, fine, bottle limit big time and only sell to locals with local IDs. You want to be even more restrictive and weed out locals who flip beers, make each buyer prove their beer love/knowledge (good luck with that).

    What will not work, will be trying to control behaviors of others once the beer leaves your brewery. Kill trading on one site, another will pop up. Kill selling on one, another will pop up. It is not complicated as no matter what you do, Problem 1 or 2 will exist as long as demand is greater than supply for the brews we all talk about.

    Geez I need a beer. BTW, thanks Bros. This is a controversial topic, but I appreciate that the generally civil posts in it have allowed it to continue as a thread. Thoughtful discussion involving differences of opinion are more fun to read than the 227th thread on Pliny vs Heady vs Hopslam.
  18. Trevdawg

    Trevdawg Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 New Hampshire

    Wow just read this entire thread. Great points from all sides.

    I have to side with not selling beer on eBay. Bottom line to me isn't whether it's illegal or not but the Brewery that brews their beer should have a say in how THEIR beer is distributed, and at what price.

    As for trading, I am for it. I have obtained beers I would not be able to obtain without a 500 plane ticket because of it. It grows a small community, its 10X more personal than eBay, you don't hear about trading scams ever. Growing a beer community is important for a brewery and for websites like this, that is what trading does. We are all very generous with trades when it comes to throwing in extras and never screwing over the BA on the other end. There is a sense of trust and loyalty on both side simply because of the fact that we are BA members.

    Keep fighting the good fight HF and keep brewing spectacular beers.
  19. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Problem is, it isn't THEIR beer once they exchange it to you for your dollars. I have never signed a contract when purchasing beer.

    Is there something special in the beer hobby where the CUSTOMER is a piece of shit and the BUSINESS is some sort of God?

    It's amazing that a customer can say something like " Hey, can you guys brew more beer? You don't make enough " and they get shit on by rabid dogs defending their "team" ( brewery ) with crap like " How DARE YOU?? It's THEIR BREWERY and THEIR BEER " Some BA's are worse than Raiders fans.

    JavaNoire, domtronzero and Msmith8814 like this.
  20. JRod1969

    JRod1969 Zealot (574) Nov 23, 2010 New York

    Hey, since you took the illegality out of it the equation, what is special about a brewery and its product versus any other maker of anything?

    Does Ford have a say if I sell my used Explorer for one price or another?
    Does an artist have a say if I buy their painting and then resell it later?

    Breweries to me are either manufacturers or artists (culinary) and either way you cut it, they lose the rights to have a say what happens with their creations once they sell. Breweries set prices and distributions rules, just not on the secondary purchases.
  21. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Prepare to be jumped on by the Occult.
    JavaNoire and Msmith8814 like this.
  22. GabrielM

    GabrielM Aspirant (281) Jun 22, 2010 Illinois

    This statement is complete bullshit - you'd be left-clicking.
    arniepnminne, Mavajo and afksports like this.
  23. JRod1969

    JRod1969 Zealot (574) Nov 23, 2010 New York

    I don't see why. I'm saying breweries can do whatever they want while they have the beer (whether I agree with it or not).

    Personally, I think HF should only sell Ann to people named Ann, Jimmy to Jimmys and so on. It would be a hilarious exercise to watch unfold. Imagine the next brew they only bottle 100 bottles and call it Joe, but only sell to Joe's with real IDs. You know you'd see ISO Joes in the trade forum. Would be fun.
  24. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    What if he's left handed?
  25. Trevdawg

    Trevdawg Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 New Hampshire

    Maybe i sound a little optimistic when i say this but i believe that people within the craft beer culture are more genuine than others. We know whats right and whats wrong, if we were bad guys we would be drinking PBR all day, not Dark Lords. I view craft beer brewing as an art (because I for one know it is fucking hard to do what they do). I believe that we know better and since we are better people simply because we can recognize something awesome. And i do think that an artist should have a say in whether or not his artwork sells for more down the road. Just because craft beer breweries are the first ones to do it doesn't mean they are wring it just means they will have a harder fight to win. If someone in the art industry steps up and does the same thing that HF and Russian River are doing I would back them too.
  26. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Drinking craft beer does not a better person make.
    JavaNoire likes this.
  27. glitchedmind

    glitchedmind Initiate (0) May 8, 2012 California

    he might be using a left handed mouse? :wink:

    *beat by 3 minutes. I should stop typing with only my left hand.
  28. JRod1969

    JRod1969 Zealot (574) Nov 23, 2010 New York

    Then we don't diagree in princple. I just don't think breweries can change the way the world works. There will always be a secondary market like with everything else as long as supply exceeds demand.
    yojimbo1 likes this.
  29. Trevdawg

    Trevdawg Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 New Hampshire

    We have different views of what makes a person better :slight_smile:
  30. Trevdawg

    Trevdawg Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 New Hampshire

    they can try, and if they see progress why not keep trying?
  31. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    ...and they shouldn't even try to. They make beer. They should just shutup and do that. If HF spent half the energy they spend screwing around with what the owners of their beer did, perhaps they could make more beer.

    Don't screw with customers. Rule #1 in business. The owners of the beer who trade it are your customers.
    Mavajo, fargoth and travMI13 like this.
  32. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (254) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan

    The problem is craft beer crossed over into the masses. It's like when this happens to your favorite band. There is no going back.
  33. mwrecording

    mwrecording Initiate (172) Nov 14, 2009 Maryland

    I always assumed, and know of one guy who's ebay email address was also the same as his BA username(he's in the trade forums, never traded with him but he trades the same stuff he sold), that the guys selling whales and big ticket beers on eBay were already guys on Beeradvocate.

    Sorry for the awful sentence.

    I'd imagine there will be a few more FT: big ticket beer threads that we used to not see as much.
  34. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (721) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    See - here's the problem with your argument. You're advocating for the free market, which is fine, except for the fact that breweries are not allowed to play by the free market. (And legally, neither are you, but I digress.) Breweries have a billion restrictions in place over how they are allowed to sell their beer. Given those restrictions being largely out of their control, I don't find it totally unreasonable to respect their wishes.

    If we had a real free market, then the Ebay market probably wouldn't exist anyway, as everybody would just sell their beer direct through beeradvocate.com.
    FatBoyGotSwagger and cavedave like this.
  35. GabrielM

    GabrielM Aspirant (281) Jun 22, 2010 Illinois

    Check mate.
  36. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    What if I buy a rare Star Wars figure and flip it 2 days later for 10x what I paid at Target - should Hasbro/Kenner come after me? Did I hurt them?
  37. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (721) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I don't understand your analogy - Hasbro/Target get to play by the free market in an almost completely unregulated industry.
  38. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    The analogy works just fine. I don't believe a brewery is hurt in any way when their beer is traded/ebayed. Bottom line - they sold the beer. Once it's sold, they have no further interest.

    Take the auto industry. Heavily regulated. I can go get a great deal on a 2013 Shelby GT500 and sell it used, titled for $5k more the next day. Won't hurt Ford.
  39. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (721) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    They have safety regulations, sure, but no regulations around the downstream supply chain. They can produce as much as they want, send it to wherever they want, let it be purchased by anyone they want, etc, etc.

    Do you realize you are completely ignoring one enormous fact? Most breweries don't price their beer to maximize value, particularly with limited releases. If Ford saw you selling your car for $10,000 more the day after you drove it off the lot, they'd raise prices. Breweries don't do that, even though they could, so why should you exploit them?
  40. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    The ebay sales are miniscule. If GI put all 12,000 bottles of Rare up there for $175, they would not sell. I've never ebayed beer, I just don't mess with what other people do when it's harmless.

    Ford DOES see the massive GT500 gouging. In fact, in 2006 when the first one came out, dealers paid $40k invoice from Ford them, and sold THOUSANDS for $30k over sticker. Ford did not raise the invoice price to dealers.
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