Effeciency

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Noodles, Aug 29, 2013.

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  1. Noodles

    Noodles Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2013 Ohio

    I've recently started all grain home brewing. I'm having a problem with achieving my efficiency. The first batch it was 50%. The second one was 39%. I can't figure out what it is I'm do wrong. I'm using a homemade copper manifold as my false bottom. I've been able to keep the mash temperature fairly constant. I was told that single stage mashing is the reason and that I should use multi rest mash. Is this true? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I plan on brewing an oatmeal stout this weekend.
     
  2. dbc5

    dbc5 Savant (1,117) Jun 18, 2009 Arizona

    Plenty of homebrewers achieve 65 to 75% efficient (or better) utilizing single infusion mash techniques. The issue is somewhere else and not a result of failing to utilize multi rest mashes. How is your grain being milled? Are you positive about your measurements (including the accuracy of your instruments)? Any idea what your mash ph is?
     
  3. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    There are several factors that may bias your efficiency

    1. Grain grinding. The finer the higher eff.
    2. Mash Ph. Your mash Ph must be between 5,2-5,6 .
    3. Steady temerature while mashing.
    4. Sparge method and water temperature.

    It is possible that you are having troubles with your water,do you know your water for brewing chemistry?
     
    Soneast, MLucky and JohnSnowNW like this.
  4. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    fineness of grain crush is a big factor. too rough of a crush leads to poor efficiency. Mash thick when you can. This leaves as much rinse (sparge water) available to complete your preboil volume. I always mash at 1.25 qts water/pound of grain in the bill. This usually draws around 1 gal from the first runnings. I double batch sparge after this with about 3 and 3 gallons of water.
     
    mattbk likes this.
  5. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    We need more info. Are you fly or batch sparging? What's your mash temperature? Is your thermometer calibrated? Are you doing any water treatment? How much sparge water at what temperature? Also double check your calculations, maybe here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

    For the most part, homebrew efficiency is just something for nerds to brag about, but 40-50% does indicate a problem. Please supply some more details.

    edit: Many of us get 85-90% efficiency from single temperature infusion mashes, so I'd not look at that until other areas are addressed.
     
  6. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    It's been mentioned, but I'll back it up with a concurrence:

    1. Make damn sure your thermometer is calibrated.
    2. Make sure you're mashing with at least 1.25 quarts of water per lbs of grain.
    3. Make sure your Ph is lower than 5.6 (Ideally, you need to use something like EZ Water Calculator)
    4. Make sure you have a good crush
     
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Agree with other commenters about the need for much more information about OP's process.

    Before anyone can suggest what OP might try to do...tell us what you did do.
     
  8. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    What he said.

    My efficiency was kind of all over the place until I started adjusting pH. Now it's consistently high.
     
  9. messyhair42

    messyhair42 Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2010 Colorado

    How are you sparging? Batch/Fly/none? A no sparge beer can turn out fine (or better) than using a sparge but it requires more grain. If you're fly sparging slow down your flow, it should take an hour for a 5 gallon batch to finish the sparge. I batch sparge, and for anything with an OG above 1.060 I like to split my sparge in half so I get three runnings and start with ~7.00 gallons of wort as my pre-boil volume.
     
  10. InVinoVeritas

    InVinoVeritas Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    I'm new to AG, doing my first Monday as BIAB; so I can't add too much feedback. What I can add is that I'm using this tool as a pH adjustor and if others advise is to look to correction of pH it's pretty user friendly:

    http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
     
  11. Noodles

    Noodles Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2013 Ohio

    Thanks everyone for the advice. Most of you seemed to hit on the ph of the water. That is something I haven't done. I've assumed since I used natural spring water it wasn't important. Now that brings up a new problem. I know nothing about how to check the ph. :slight_smile:
     
  12. fuzzbalz

    fuzzbalz Pundit (953) Apr 13, 2002 Georgia

    You can try using 5.2 stabilizer in your mash water, I've used it before with good results but have since gotten a water report on my tap water and adjust using brewing salts and BS to make sure I'm hitting my measurements I use a marked wooden dowel. Others have not liked using the 5.2 stabilizer product for diff reason but I found that using less than recommend amounts helps with these issues.
     
  13. cfrobrew

    cfrobrew Initiate (0) Oct 9, 2012 Texas

    I just got some of that and was wondering what the pros/cons were. Naturally the fellas at the homebrew shop thought it was the most magical thing they never understood. Did you you half the tablespoon they suggested? What are some of the poor side effects? I did notice when I added it to the warm sparge water it got very cloudy...
     
  14. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    It's not hard: there are several programs available that can do this for you. I use EZ Water, which you can download for free.
     
  15. Boonedog

    Boonedog Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2013 Illinois

    Check your conversion with iodine. My first 2 I did not let mash long enough.
    The lower the mash temp the longer you need to rest.
     
  16. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Mash pH can have some effect, but it is typically not that dramatic as far as efficiency goes; see this figure from braukaiser. As long as your spring water is not too high in alkalinity, your mash pH is probably ok, even if not ideal (5.2 to 5.6).

    I believe that more likely culprits (perhaps in combination) are (i) too coarse a grain crush, (ii) temperature issues, (iii) possibly channeling during the sparge (if fly sparging).
     
  17. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I haven't seen this asked yet, or at least answered:

    When and how are you taking your OG reading?
     
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  18. warchez

    warchez Zealot (545) Oct 19, 2004 Massachusetts

    Does conversion really equate to efficiency as read by specific gravity? I've never really tried it but if you mashed at 180F how far off would you be from your gravity? My point being, you will get an increase in soluble material into the liquor it just isn't sugar. If you were shooting for 1050 OG I'd think you'd be pretty close to that but it would just be a starchy mess. No?

    I point this out because because to me an efficiency of 50% or less (as asked by the OP) says there's something else wrong. Like mash tun geometry, technique, broken hydrometer or operator error in the equipment, measurement or process. (No offense to the OP of course.)

    I might have to take a couple pounds of malt and 'mash' it at say 100F and/or say 180F and check the gravity myself.
     
  19. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    +1 to everyone who already asked....SPARGING METHOD?
    Numbers that low scream improper fly sparging...if so, change over to batch sparging.

    Second, are you properly mixing the grains with the strike water so all the dough balls are broken up?
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Don't worry about pH yet. The kind of numbers you're talking about indicate much worse problems, or an error in measurement. Describe your process, please.
     
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