Effects of not using enough water in boil?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by sprucegoose, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. sprucegoose

    sprucegoose Initiate (0) Feb 11, 2015

    Very new to homebrewing. I'm actually curious as to what you might expect a finished beer to taste like if it's not brewed with enough water (a significant amount). For example, I used the ingredients for a 3.5 gallon boil, but the final yield from the boil was only about 2.5 gallons. I added water to the fermenter proportionately, ending up with a total of about 3.75 gallons in there.

    I still decided to ferment it, bottle it etc. and I'd like to know what kinds of off-tastes and differences you all think I should be tasting for when I drink it soon. I'd really like to discern the problems with it so I can educate myself about why not to make this mistake again.

    Thanks!
     
  2. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Sounds like a volume problem that started due to more boil off than expected. I don't really know what you mean by ,
    This beer might be stronger...or weaker depending on what you mean. It also might be more/less bitter/hoppy depending...but it's kind of hard to say without more info. Was this supposed to be a 5 gal batch?

    Full boils without topping up with water is the best way to go if you have a big enough boil kettle and a good heat source. It will be beer though...learn from your mistakes Cheers and welcome
     
  3. sprucegoose

    sprucegoose Initiate (0) Feb 11, 2015

    @GreenKrusty101 I understand exactly what you mean...I'd actually considered both of those outcomes, but I wasn't sure if my logic was right. Thanks so much! I'm already hooked...brewed a second batch and got everything right--at least, I think I did.
     
  4. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Another thing to consider is the boil-off rate. It varies from boil kettle to boil kettle, but the average BO rate is around 1 gallon lost/hr. For example, if you were to start off with 3.5 gal wort pre-boil, you will have 2.5 gal wort post-boil that will be more concentrated, assuming you did the typical 1-hour boil.

    I think your beer will be fine, and definitely drink it, but like @GreenKrusty101 said it may be stronger than normal.
     
  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Welcome to the BA site and to the Homebrewing forum. If you added water to get 3.75 gallons in your fermenter, was the recipe written for 3.75 gallons? If your boil kettle is not large enough for a full boil (even allowing for extra starting water for the expected boil off) then you must do a partial boil and add some top-off water after the boil to reach your recipe's requirement. If you are a perfectionist, you'll also allow for the volume of trub that gets inside your fermentor, but usually that is not a great amount. You can adjust for that amount when you package your beer.

    The effects of missing your liquid volume:
    Too much water added will give you a weaker beer, but more bottles than expected (and maybe you didn't sanitize enough bottles and uh-oh!)

    Too little water will give you a concentrated beer with a higher ABV and a more concentrated flavor. It will leave you less bottles, so you'll have empty bottles at the end. BUT, for this situation all is not lost because you can still add top-off water just before bottling. You just need to be sure to mix it well into your concentrated beer or you'll have a mixture of weak and strong-flavored bottles. Topping off at the time of bottling is also an opportunity to add your priming sugar by boiling it into the water that you are going to add. Just be sure to gently stir that mixture into your beer in the bottling bucket so that the priming sugar is well distributed in the beer, otherwise you'll have some bottles get more sugar than others, thus some that are over-carbonated and some that are nearly flat.

    If the water addition is off, your beer is not ruined, it just won't come out as planned. And sometimes happy accidents lead to a good beer if you overlook something like this.
     
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  6. Bwhamon

    Bwhamon Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2014 Kentucky

    did you measure the gravity? if so, you can figure out the final gravity and thus the ABV. I have never added new wort to fermenting wort but I bet someone here has tried. I would not mess with it though.

    I bet you will end up just fine. If the batch (post boil into the fermenter) should have been 3.5 gal and you started with only 3.5 gal but then added more water in the fermenter, you will be fine. Read about gravity units in How to Brew by Palmer. Here is why I am confident. So let's say you expected the OG (in the fermenter) to be 1.060 for 3.5 gal. That means you expect 3.5x60=210 total gravity points if you did everything by the book. If you boiled down to 2.5 gal you would have OG of 210/2.5= 1.084 (so much stronger beer). However. since you topped it off to 3.75 you would have 210/3.75=1.056 which is very close to where you expected to be. I hope this helps.

    We all screw up something. I think I have made mistakes with each batch. Learn from it and then make different mistakes next time.
     
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Make sure any cool water added to the fermentor and / or bottling bucket has been sterilized by boiling.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The top off water does not need to be sterilized if you have public water.

    Cheers!
     
  9. GUNSLINGER

    GUNSLINGER Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2013 Colorado

    I would carbon filter it still though.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, chlorine/chloramine should be removed but there is no need to sterilize.

    Cheers!
     
  11. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    one reason it is a good idea to boil the water and let it cool before adding it to beer is that boiling will drive off dissolved oxygen.

    adding water directly to fermented beer is a good way to add 8 ppm of dissolved oxygen.
    Cheers
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @sprucegoose posted: “I added water to the fermenter proportionately, ending up with a total of about 3.75 gallons in there.”

    Having ‘extra’ DO at the beginning of fermentation is a ‘bonus’.

    Cheers!
     
  13. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Correct.
    I was replying to Herbs comment about adding water to the bottling bucket. Once fermentation is completed.
    Cheers.
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ah yes. If adding to a bottling bucket de-aerating water is indeed a good idea.

    Cheers!
     
  15. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Others would beg to differ.
     
  16. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Adding water to a fermenter is usually done PRE-fermentation...using hermetically sealed (new) bottled water is a good way to do this without boiling it

    How did we get off on this tangent?...it's almost never done (adding to bottling bucket).
     
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  17. sprucegoose

    sprucegoose Initiate (0) Feb 11, 2015

    Thanks all for the input so far! I've been away from the site for a few days and this is great info to come back to. Let me try to clarify the details of what happened:

    • I was trying to brew a 5 gallon batch...so all of my ingredients were measured out for that (grain, extract, hops...).
    • I didn't have a big enough pot for a full boil, so I was shooting for 3.5 gallons, to which I would add water after cooling.
    • I mismeasured (I eyeballed and didn't account for boil off) and ended up with 2.5 gallons of wort after the boil. Remember, this was supposed to be 5 g.
    • After cooling the wort, I poured it into the fermenter, added water to 3.75 gallons, aerated, pitched my yeast, and sealed it all up to ferment.
    If anyone has anything to add based on these details, I look forward to hearing your thoughts...thanks, y'all!
     
  18. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    If you had just done this twice (in 2 different pots/kettles, you would have been perfect...: )

    (no top up water at all)
     
  19. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    or....like I do it when I brew indoors...1 big, fat 8 gal pot straddling 2 gas burners...cheers and keep on brew'in
     
  20. sprucegoose

    sprucegoose Initiate (0) Feb 11, 2015

    Haha good point. 20/20 in hindsight, isn't it?

    Since this experiment, I've gotten a decent sized kettle to get the job done and brewed the same recipe to the actual specs. I'm excited for the comparison after both are ready to drink.[
     
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