Etiquette for providing negative beer tasting comments

A little recon may be necessary before anything is done. First off, was it someone actually from the brewery or a volunteer that poured it, thus is the person standing in front of you a person that actually has a vested interest in the brewery? Is the actual brewery rep otherwise unable to become engrossed in conversation (as these events typically have a lot of brewer crossfeed happening)? The "nods head and thanks" response would be the only recourse if this is the case, and if so, fire off a well constructed email a little later just to let them know your thoughts. If you found that you are actually talking to someone who can effect change on the beer than after discussing with them a little bit about themselves and what drives them to be in the business, a little bit about the brewery and what their objective was with this particular beer, engaging them in discussion would show that you are actually interested in their beer (i.e., potential long term customer) and cast you in a bit better light than who may be seen as a typical snarky craft beer "know-it-all". The distinction in their eyes may endear you to them a bit more and your critical observation on their beer may not be seen as just trying to show off what you read on like, BA or something. Maybe the "niceties" discussion isn't up everyone's alley, but here's chance to learn a little about the beer and the brewery before you stick your foot in your mouth. Maybe they were actually shooting for an IPA that was more malty in nature. Maybe they wanted their RIS to blur the line between it and an imperial version of a Cascadian. You never know. Plus, these events can be really educational if you start folks talking and then just sit back, sip and listen.

If you simply are not comfortable with what you may perceive as confrontation, than maybe your best bet either way is to send the brewery an email after the event noting that you enjoyed visiting their booth and what you thought about the beer(s) you had and where you found them a little subpar.

 

This can be really tough at festivals where it's the actual brewer/owner pouring their beer and they're really excited and earnest yet their beer is barely passable, or, at worst, downright awful.

If I feel compelled to be honest with them (and I don't always do, but I typically will try), I usually start by furrowing my brow and asking a question about their process. This let's them know I think there's a problem but it's non confrontational and makes it less personal. Generally speaking, bad beers are made by those guys just starting out (there's very very few veteran craft brewers making bad or mediocre beer), and to those new brewers their beers are an extension of themselves. You've got to frame the conversation so it's about the beer and their process, and avoid implying by proxy that they're a terrible brewer. Like a couple people said above, if they listen and take advice, then they'll probably be okay. If they don't, they'll probably go out of business (and blame it on anything other than their brewing capability).

Thankfully, truly bad beer is pretty rare at festivals/tastings. Mediocre beer is more common, and that doesn't always deserve criticism.

 

@gopens44 raises a good point - it seems quite dependent on the situaton. I do believe in honesty, but I also try to be tactful and respectful as well (unless I'm treated otherwise). I've been to events where the brewers are their and were open to discussion, and that has been a valuable experience. Maybe for both sides - I don't know, but at least I usually learn something. It would seem pointless to discuss things with a volunteer - in that case, I would e-mail the brewery. That means the environment/venue is an important consideration.

If I don't like a beer, that is one thing and it's a different discussion than "this beer has a flaw". I might not like a beer and not know for sure what the flaw is or if it is flawed or if it is that way by intent - that's also a possibility. But if I just don't like a beer, maybe there's not much merit in discussing it since I'm one palate among billions. If I taste an unbalanced, out of control hop bomb - well, I'm not gonna like it and in my mind that beer is flawed. If that's what the brewer intended, so be it, but I;m not going to buy it. This is all situational - what's the context of conversation? Is there a conversation?

It's kind of like a customer "complaint" - I will e-mail a brewery or will visit them if they are close enough, make a phone call. Hopefully there can be constructive dialogue in both directions. Sometimes I learn what they were thinking, couple times I've been correct in detecting a problem, and I've been ignored.

I was at a store tasting once - they had a Shipyard Pugsley Signature beer that was bad tasting in a myriad of ways. You know how you taste something objectionable and there's no place to spit it out - we're standing there and of course the longer we went not just getting it over with, the worse it got. The poor person serving looked so upset and she's just a store worker so what do you say in that case? Walk away...maybe run to the rest room? Not her "fault" and she's not going to talk to the brewer...

 

A few thoughts:
-I am a business person - feedback is necessary if you want to improve or succeed (yes, exceptions exist). It's called the "feedback loop."
-So you're going to buy more beer ("willing to spend my money on their beer to prevent that") from a company/brand that you don't like so they don't go bankrupt? Hmm....
-But these people ARE there to make a career out of this in almost all circumstances
-Pretty lengthy prose for something that's not serious for you

Bonus thoughts:
-Everybody gets a trophy = Entitlement society. Get trophy -> "I'm as good as everyone else" ... Grown up version after years of this conditioning -> I deserve what everyone else has regardless of my own intellectual ability or work ethic -> Entitlement -> take from those who have more -> repeat cycle...
(no, not everyone who has more has earned it, but in most cases they did earn it...or at least their parents/grandparents did and passed it on)
-Watch Idiocracy if you haven't. Sorry if this deviates too much from OP's topic.

 

I don't think I would bother pointing anything out in an environment where I was tasting samples. I have been put on the spot at Tap Takeovers, where the owners/brewers are sometimes there. Since I have only been doing this for the past year, not sure I feel comfortable going into the specifics on what is wrong with one of their beers. I know for a fact things I didn't like 10 months ago I do now. Normally if asked outright if I tried it and what did I think I would tell them yes I did and it was ok, just not a style I appreciate right now.
If it is a bad beer do you think they don't know it? I would imagine that these guys are trying other beers, hopefully the top regarded beers in that style. If not and they are trusting their own taste profile, they will find out soon enough that they got into the wrong business. I would find it hard to believe that we would actually be telling them things about their beer that they didn't know. If I was making a product that was supposed to be exactly like another product and it wasn't better, and I am selling it for the same price then I would be an idiot. But on the other hand no 2 beers are the same, so what I like you may not like. Tough subject

 

I think it's important to discuss what's the character of a beer without being disparaging or endorsing. For instance, it's ok to discuss that buttery character in a beer without immediately jumping to "I taste diacetyl, so it must be bad" type of remarks. Besides, who gets to decide what an off flavor is or isn't? Isn't one man's trash another man's treasure. It's ok to say that the buttery character is to much for me but I can see others liking it. The people who make and sell beer should have pretty thick skin and welcome any honest feedback; they should be able to handle the criticism if they intend to welcome the praise.

 

Yeah, feedback is important to businesses. I don't doubt that at all. It should be important. But if it's so important, then you need to do something to ensure you get proper feedback (which is what I suggested in my previous post, like having a survey to fill out or something. You can't just hope people give you honest feedback as, this thread and countless other research reports show, that's not going to happen).

Yes, I'm willing to buy more of their beer if it's good, but I don't feel an responsibility to make it any better. I don't see what's confusing about that. It's not clean parks and rivers, which I do feel a responsibility to ensure. It's beer.

Good for them. I really do wish them the best.

The length of my response should provide insight on my level of seriousness for this conversation, nothing more (and that's minimal insight)

Everybody gets a trophy is just a way to show kids they are all valued. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to translate to an entitled grown up. Everyone is valuable. People should be reminded that they are valuable. That shouldn't translate into entitlement.

Sure, they earned it. But they earned it within a system that privileges some and disadvantages others. That doesn't mean they have to give it back, but it does mean they have to help work towards making the system a level playing field so that others can join in the prosperity.

I've seen it. Funny movie. Scary though, as it shows what happens when people only believe there's one way of knowing things.

 

If the only way kids feel valued is via a trophy, then parents aren't doing their jobs. Trophies for 1-8 year olds, sure, but eventually it has to stop.

Minimal insight? Be responding you're only reinforcing my point

I come from a disadvantaged background and made it. There's no such thing in life as a level playing field. Others can join prosperity by working hard and being blessed with intelligence. Everybody can't be rich. "Life is fair" -said no one.

 

Its called constructive criticism. If you dont care for a beer and you say this beer blows to the brewers face.... well your a dick. If you dont care for a beer and say, its ok but i dont particularly care for this or its not bad but has an off flavor or it could be more balanced... then your fine I think.


Unless.....this was only one time but I was fairly innebriated and this was like the 3rd awful brew.

Was at the Saison du Ble release at Side Project and this girl for a brewery that will remain nameless was walking up and down throuhg the line talking about how good this start up brewery was and handing out samples from a growler. So far so good, what a great way to rep your brwery. However every beer was flat and had this awful soap taste to it as well as being pretty tateless over all. After the thrid time she tride to push her swill telling me it was the best stout I was going to taste to day I had to just flat out tell her they needed to go back to the drawing board and that they were by a far margin the worst three beers ive had in along time.

 

I never give negative criticism in a beerfest type environment. Is it fair to criticize based on a 2 oz sample when you've had 25 others right before?

 

Confirmation bias.

Also why blame kids for being trophy generation kids, something they had no control over.

In regard to this thread, more and more it seems like a big part of the answer is knowing the context and who you're talking to! The Saison du Ble example is kind of extreme and not the case for usual tasting situations.

 

My main goal is never coming off as a dick since more than likely they put a lot of work into the beer and think it came out good and want the consumer to enjoy it. I'll usually comment that one of their beers was my favorite one and leave out negative comments for what I hated. Normally it makes them happy when you say such and such beer was awesome. They don't even think to ask your opinion on the rest and if they do I usually say the one I liked hit my preference the best over the others.

 

Shoot straight with them, and don't be a jerk about it. If its a meaningful conversation, they should take from it some points about their product.

I was at a festival where one of the brewers was pouring at his kiosk, and he asked me what I thought of a Riesling barrel-aged saison. I told him that I thought it was super oaky, that it almost took away from the base beer. He agreed with me and told me that he was already planning on tweaking things for the next batch. The beer definitely wasn't ruined, but had some strong flavors. It was clearly a small batch, or one-off thing he was experimenting with. He was super cool about the feedback. If my memory serves me, he gave me a free pour of something else of his to try, just for chatting it up with him.

 

I once had an uncomfortable experience at a small hole in the wall brewery where I was the only customer in the place and the owner/brewery literally stood about 2 feet in front of me behind the bar and had me rate each beer I tried. The problem is that they weren't very good at all. I had to give polite feedback about any positive characteristics I could think of, so I was saying things like "well the color on this one is quite nice".

 

There is a way to be very polite about not liking something. One need not launch a negative screed nor accepting something by common complaisance. I've been in this position many times- from both ways- and learned that there truly is a gracious way to say you think something really sucks without ruffling feathers everywhere. My opinion is just one and I have been determined to not hurt people's feelings. This is not very difficult stuff.

 

Wow. This is the exact opposite of the festival experiences I've had. But then I do tend to only attend the smaller gatherings, dominated by local brewers. And because they're smaller, it's most often the owner or someone with real involvement in the brewing process that is doing the pouring. You're right that they can't hold up the line indefinitely, but typically, after the first hour or so, things slow down enough that you have the chance to chat. The last fest I attended, all the brewers were really pissed that they had a band playing so loud (it was indoors) that it was almost impossible to talk. Pretty much all of the brewers were complaining that it really devalued the experience for them if they weren't able engage attendees in conversation about their beers.

And to (finally) answer the OP's question, the brewers I've encountered at these events want honest feedback. And to clarify, "Your beer sucks, dude," doesn't help. What they need is "Your beer sucks, dude. It's really malty for an IPA and it has no aroma--as if it were past it's expiration date." As someone else mentioned above, everyone saying nice things about their beer doesn't pay any bills if they don't honestly like it enough to buy it. Especially the small guys just getting their feet under them need to know what it's going to take to make a commercially viable product. Or else they'll just spend all their time daydreaming about the nice lies people told them while they work their next job.

 

I tend to say thanks for the beer. If I know the brewer or distributor or if the person dispensing the beer asks then (depending on how much I've sampled) I try to be constructive with my criticisms while also trying to say something positive.

 

I do. It makes me feel better about myself.

 

Considering a whole industry exists around trying to get feedback from consumers.
I find it amusing that people think you shouldn't speak your mind..
With that sad if the brewery is less than a year old I usually give them some slack..

 

Definitely agree that you shouldn't be brutal, but also think you need to be honest with the brewer/rep. If there's an off or unpleasant flavor in beer, tell the brewer/rep what it is. Also make sure to let the brewer/rep know what about the beer is good though too.

If the beer tastes like a total drain pour, it might just be best to move on and not comment (unless you think the off flavor is cause by an infection).

Craft beer is a consumer driven industry. Breweries don't get better by ignoring the suggestions/complaints of consumers. Any time I've tasted an off flavor in a beer or thought something might be infected (this is pertaining to drinking at a bar/at my house - didn't have a brewer or rep there to talk to about it), I've contacted the brewery to let them know. Most will look into the situation and try to either rectify the problem in the next batch or send you a batch they think is up to their standards - this has happened to me twice and both times the breweries were extremely generous in compensation (I was not expecting any kind of compensation either time, just attempting to make the breweries aware of potential problems) and showing they really care about the customer. This goes a long way in ensuring my continued purchasing of these breweries' beers.

Edit: This is one of the reasons I appreciate the fact that Clown Shoes and Sixpoint are constantly seen reading and posting in threads on BA - they make it known that they appreciate both positive and constructive negative criticism.

Edit 2: Keep in mind that at large tasting events (festivals and the such), there might not be the time to constructively discuss these problems with the brewer/rep - it's probably better to make a note of your concerns (mentally or physically) and send them to the brewer via email (or in person, should you live close enough) afterwards.