Evil Twin Pricing?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BBAVUSO21, Jun 10, 2015.

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  1. aschwab

    aschwab Zealot (500) Mar 3, 2009 Texas

    I should clarify - if he was referring to high end as just all craft beer is high end, then I have nothing against his statement.

    If he was just saying it was high end due to the price, then I disagree with his statement.

    As far as beer geeks complaining, literally everyone complains about everything. It does not matter if it is beer, cars, phones, technology, to concert ticket prices. People complain when they perceive something as not worth the cost. It is not a beer geek phenomenon.
    rozzom likes this.
  2. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Crusader (740) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina

    I think their beer is very overpriced. They have a few good ones (Molotov Lite, Sour Bikini, the Femme Fatale series). But they also have a lot of beers that I personally think straight up suck (Molotov Cocktail, Nomader Weisse, Porthole saison all come to mind, but there are more).

    I also don't think their stouts are anywhere near as good as a lot of people do.
  3. rozzom

    rozzom Champion (835) Jan 22, 2011 New York

    Ah ok gotcha.

    Agreed it's in people's nature to complain. But I think it happens to varying degrees - and when it comes to beer it's definitely "high end" (sorry).

    I mean the person in the market for an economy car is going to gaze longingly at the 200k Porsche (without complaining), laugh at the absurdity of the 200k Kia and wish them well with their bankruptcy (without complaining), and go and ultimately buy a Toyota etc.

    Making it more apples to apples. The guy who's at the price point to buy Famous Grouse doesn't go off on an online rant about the price of Macallan 18. Or at least it happens less frequently. Either the Macallan is judged to be worthy of the price and it sells, or it isn't and it doesn't.
  4. Dolomitey

    Dolomitey Initiate (61) Apr 9, 2015 Iowa

    Iowa City and surrounding communities tend to leave ET on the shelf. For example, Biscotti Break seems to never run out (individually sure, but the next store will have it). Considering it's a very good beer, this tells me that my fellow beer drinkers think it's too expensive. I've never actually heard anyone local complain about the pricing, but I'll be sure to remind them, "Don't buy it then and stop whining about it!!", if they try to offer that opinion. Cause that's reasonable.
  5. tylerstravis

    tylerstravis Meyvn (1,036) Feb 14, 2014 Colorado

    I hate paying those prices, but I always do because 90% of the time it's worth it!
  6. TheGator321

    TheGator321 Initiate (0) May 29, 2013 Connecticut

    it's the attitude I get from Jeppe about the price of his beers.
  7. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Poo-Bah (1,732) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska
    Society Trader

    You're gonna have to expand on this theory. What exactly do you mean by human psychology doesn't really mesh with the idea that consumers should buy what they want to buy (based on whether they want the product and can afford it or not) and pass over what they don't want to buy?

    Are you suggesting that human psychology is at odds with a concept as simple as making good choices?

    On a certain level, I'm not sure I can disagree, given the abundance of bad choices I see humans make on a daily occurrence, but I'm not sure it's fair to call a seller "immoral" because someone else can't exercise even the most basic level of self-control. That same logic--that human psychology is at odds with consumers having the onus to not purchase "overpriced" goods--could be used to rationalize the government setting of prices so that the prices are supposedly at some objective standard of what is "fair".

    How much over cost should a seller be allowed to price their product? Is it a dollar amount? A percentage? This is a huge part of the reason why in a (relatively) free market, we enable producers to set prices and consumers to choose to buy or not. Because the fairest way to find that balance between a "fair" amount of profit to the seller and a "fair" amount of value in return for the product to the buyer is to let each individual have the free will to make their choices and deal with the consequences.
    rozzom likes this.
  8. Buschyfor3

    Buschyfor3 Devotee (461) Jan 4, 2009 Kentucky

    ET's pricing has always been a bit on the higher side for 4pks/22oz in my area, but every time I've splurged for one, it has been well worth the price. Yet to have a bottle that I didn't enjoy or where I felt I didn't get my money's worth.
    gibgink likes this.
  9. OntheLambic

    OntheLambic Aspirant (258) Jan 9, 2015 Connecticut

    To me this whole discussion seems to boil down to people being upset about not being able to afford ET beers, because if it’s simply a matter of being upset about spending $15 and being disappointed, then the next time you are at your local bottle shop, move right along past the ET bottles and onto something else. There have been many times where I have seen a beer priced above what I can afford or am willing to pay, you know what I do when that happens, move 1 foot to my right or left and find something equally appealing, that sits more comfortably in my financial wheelhouse. What I choose not to do is lament what I cannot afford because that is a futile endeavor and a waste of energy. Will I ever be able to afford the highest priced beers without flinching as it gets scanned at the register, perhaps, perhaps not, if not, I am ok with that because there are so many other great brews out there that are more moderately priced.

    People choose far too frequently to focus on trivial things instead of what’s really important. I decided a while back that I would enjoy what I have instead of focusing on what I do not.
  10. SaisonRichBiere

    SaisonRichBiere Savant (952) Mar 23, 2011 Michigan

    It's overpriced for what they offer, for sure. And I am not afraid to drop cash on beers.

    I find Evil Twin's offerings to generally be good, but not great, and their price points, compared to similar offerings in the marketplace, are definitely off-putting for me.

    I've seen 10oz tulips of Nomader and Bikini Beer on beer menus for 12 dollars.

    By contrast though, I'd pay whatever it costs for a IBB when I want one. And the $35 World's Worst Twin I picked up at Tørst..... I'm sure it's worth it
    Strangestbrewer likes this.
  11. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,454) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    not only that, but "if you don't like the price, don't buy it *really is* the answer. if you keep buying it, you obviously like it enough at that price point and should just get over it.

    you know? it's like "i feeeeeel that this price is too high," (then pays the price). evidently it's *not* too high, because you still bought it!
    LambicPentameter and rozzom like this.
  12. Themightywrenn

    Themightywrenn Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2015 California

    Evil Twin is not pricing 10oz tulips of beer that you're ordering from somewhere...
    WCKDVBZ likes this.

    WCKDVBZ Initiate (0) May 9, 2014 South Carolina

    One of Jeppe's FB responses: "Fun fact of the day: a $19 six-pack is equal to a $5,80 bomber. How many people complain about a $5.80 bomber?"

    Yeah, people think it's a steal and the best bargain ever, when they pay that much for a bomber of Hop Stoopid.
  14. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Crusader (740) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina

    Well then why doesn't Evil Twin put out a $6 bomber then? Because all of their bombers I've seen have been at least $15.

    This is why this logic does not work.
    szmnnl99 likes this.
  15. 57md

    57md Poo-Bah (2,536) Aug 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    $2.50 per 16 ounce beer is certainly reasonable.

    I think that for me it starts with my feeling that the quality if Evil Twin beer is overrated. I've tried 9 of their beers and have been under-whelmed by them all.

    I'll gladly pay for exceptional beer - I just have yet to find a worthy ET beer.
    rojapa likes this.

    WCKDVBZ Initiate (0) May 9, 2014 South Carolina

    Have you had any of these: Lil' B, Imperial Biscotti Break (and the variants), Imperial Doughnut Break, Even More Jesus (and the variants), Bozo Beer, I Love You With My Stout?
    Themightywrenn likes this.
  17. Themightywrenn

    Themightywrenn Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2015 California

    Nah... he only drinks top 20 beers all day.
  18. 57md

    57md Poo-Bah (2,536) Aug 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Imperial Biscotti Break and I Love You With My Stout.

    Both were good but I could easily think of about 20 or more Double Impy Stouts that are better.
  19. Themightywrenn

    Themightywrenn Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2015 California

    Biscotti is a damn good beer.
    Double Imperial Stouts? Is that like a quad stout? Where can I get one of those?
  20. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (121) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    I think he's forgetting that bombers in general are always a rip off relative to six packs. That's part of what everyone expects when they buy a beer in that format. Just look at Sucks. $7 quart or $11 six pack. If Sucks was $0.21 an ounce in six pack it'd be a $15 six pack and it'd be the same shelf turd the quarts are.
  21. Emmige1

    Emmige1 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2014 New York

    Compared to $9.99 six packs of Sea Hag, everything is overpriced
  22. TheGator321

    TheGator321 Initiate (0) May 29, 2013 Connecticut

    I dont buy sculpin because its 15.99 a six pack plus Ct tax and deposit.
    Nmelione likes this.
  23. Beef_Curtains

    Beef_Curtains Devotee (471) Oct 14, 2013 Ohio

    $15 for a sixer isn't that bad. If you're going to complain about that, then maybe this isn't the hobby for you.
  24. SaisonRichBiere

    SaisonRichBiere Savant (952) Mar 23, 2011 Michigan

    I fully understand that. But I'm sure some pricing is based on brand recognition and pricing trends of a certain brand. See any restaurant/bar pricing of premium or rare beers. Ex- $29 for a bottle of FFF Permanent Funeral at Revolution in Chicago, or $40+ cantillons at Bardot, where less hyped beers on the menu are considerably more affordable.

    And I did not order them, just saw them on the menu. But I was tempted to grab a growler to go for $64!!!
  25. djs467

    djs467 Initiate (0) Mar 1, 2011 Colorado

    50% of craft beer is overpriced.
    Generally speaking, pricing is inconsistent at best from a lot of breweries. The price point for some styles makes no sense at all to me. I see a lot Gose's and Berliner's out there now priced at the same price as a DIPA. Half of the malt went into making it and probably 5% of the hops, but the price is the same.

    I think we are seeing the price tags on a lot of Berliner's and Gose's riding the coattails of the traditional barrel aged sour beers, even though they take 1/100 of the time and resources to make.

    One more point, never cared for the whole "gypsy brewer" thing. I brew my own beer, so should these "brewers"
  26. Jeffreysan

    Jeffreysan Initiate (0) Apr 12, 2013 Maryland

    This is exactly how I feel about Evil Twin. I'll buy some of their beers once to try and review, but like you said, their pricing does keep me from being a repeat customer on their beers. That being said, Evil Twin's I Love You With My Stout, which I had this weekend, is tempting me to purchase again!
  27. 57md

    57md Poo-Bah (2,536) Aug 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    For me it's hard to beat FBS in the non-barrel aged coffee/chocolate sub-category of Double Stouts.

    Imperial Biscotti Break doesn't touch FBS IMHO even with the ABV a few notches higher.

    WCKDVBZ Initiate (0) May 9, 2014 South Carolina

    You're comparing two different styles and IMO FBS doesn't even come close to IBB.
  29. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Disciple (313) Aug 17, 2005 Oregon

    Citra Slacker, Falco, Low Life, and Molotov Lite are $10 for a 4pk of pint cans, which isn't out of line with what most other breweries charge.

    Lil B, Freudian Slip, Ryan & the Beaster Bunny, & I Love You With My Stout are $14 for a 4 pack. That works out to $6.41 for a bomber or $7.40 for a 750ml bottle of delicious, high abv beer, with the added benefit of not having to drink an entire fucking 750 of something in one sitting.

    If the beer was the same price per ounce and packaged in a bomber it would be $3.79. Can you name a single bomber of equal quality for under $4?

    The logic does work, and your post is a perfect example of how people become stupidly price-blind when it comes to bombers. No one bats an eye at a $10 bomber of imperial stout ($.45/oz), but for some reason $14 for a 4 pack of 12oz bottles ($.29/oz) is fucking criminally overpriced?
    WCKDVBZ likes this.
  30. WillQC4Beer

    WillQC4Beer Initiate (0) May 1, 2014 Vermont

    djs467 likes this.
  31. chrisjws

    chrisjws Champion (836) Dec 3, 2014 California

    The pricing is awful. Don't like that, don't buy it. That doesn't mean you can't complain about it on the internet either way. That's what the internet was invented for.

    Evil Twin and Ballast Point both produce some awesome beers and I love the product. I don't buy either very often because of the price. There's too many great beers that are comparable and don't cost as much. I love Sculpin, but 14.99/6 is pretty hard to justify when I can get a 24 pack of fresh Lagnunitas IPA for $23. $8 more, four times the beer.

    They can do what they want, and I'll do what I want and not buy their stuff very often. Would love to buy more, but that's just how it goes.
    Strangestbrewer likes this.
  32. 57md

    57md Poo-Bah (2,536) Aug 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    I accept that clearly we have different tastes.

    That said, what makes FBS and IBB so different from one another? How many sub-styles should we have?
  33. Skwalk47

    Skwalk47 Aspirant (266) Aug 31, 2010 Massachusetts

    He lost me when he said heady was laughably over prices... when something sells out in a couple hours at every single distribution point you cant say it is over-priced.
  34. Dirtyhands

    Dirtyhands Defender (657) Jul 3, 2014 Maryland

    $10 a 4 pack where? I don't live in the midwest. Try $14-17.50
  35. Skwalk47

    Skwalk47 Aspirant (266) Aug 31, 2010 Massachusetts

    Also I dont think the point is how much a beer costs to make. With the exception of aging, the ingredients of any conventional beer with similar ingredients probably cost fractions of what it sells for. Overhead, packaging, depreciation and interest... these all are more than the ingredients when you talk about beers that cost several dollars per can.
    LambicPentameter likes this.
  36. WillQC4Beer

    WillQC4Beer Initiate (0) May 1, 2014 Vermont

    Heady is wholesaled at 10$ and then they get 12-15 depending on location, not exactly highway robbery.
  37. Uconnelmo

    Uconnelmo Zealot (525) Jan 2, 2015 Connecticut

    too high, thats all i know
    keithmurray likes this.
  38. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Crusader (740) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina

    LOL...no, no it does not work. You clearly either did not read or did not understand my post, because you are arguing an entirely different point than the one I was making.

    A $6 bomber is less than a $15 one, yes? How many $6 bombers of Evil Twin beer have you ever seen before? I personally, have not ever seen one for even double that. Sometimes people just don't want 72 ounces of beer, they only want 22 ounces. Sometimes it doesn't matter whether a better price per ounce deal can be had, because I only want to commit $6 to a certain beer and try it to see if I like it before buying an entire 6-pack. Particularly with a brewery like Evil Twin who is coming out with new stuff all the time.

    Let me put this a different way - I know that I can go to Sam's Club and buy a huge ass thing of ketchup and it will be a lower price per volume than the ketchup I buy in the grocery store. But I don't do that because I don't want that much ketchup at one time.
  39. Skwalk47

    Skwalk47 Aspirant (266) Aug 31, 2010 Massachusetts

    Thats my point. How fast it sells out everywhere would indicate if anything it is under priced as demand exceeds supply. However, the length of time some (not all, certainly not IBB) ET beers sit on shelves may indicate the opposite.
    Pisthetaerus likes this.
  40. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Poo-Bah (1,732) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska
    Society Trader

    Raw ingredients only account for 10% of the average cost of a beer. The idea that there should be an appreciable consumer price difference between two beers because one uses 25% of the raw ingredients of the other is flawed.

    Think about it in the context of a $20 bomber. Of that price, $2 are raw ingredients. If the brewer passed on 100% of the raw ingredients savings (using 50% of the malt and 5% of the hops), you're still paying $18.50(ish). And on beers that are cheaper to start with, the cost savings is even less. A $10 bomber would be a difference of 75 cents.

    And I think that also ignores the fact that sometimes brewers will take a smaller margin (in effect taking the extra cost of ingredients out of their own pocket) for beers in the interest of pricing it in a way that will ensure the beer sells. If you want brewers to pass every fluctuation in the cost of raw ingredients from beer to beer to the consumer, then you have to be prepared for it to go both ways.

    Lastly, it's worth noting (since the original letter writer had the gall to suggest that Evil Twin is rolling in dough because of their retail prices), that on average, a brewer's margin on a bottle of beer is 8%. Meaning on those crazy $20 bombers, Evil Twin is probably pocketing about $1.60.
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