Extract based Zhukov clone? Newbie here

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by tobelerone, May 21, 2013.

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  1. tobelerone

    tobelerone Grand Pooh-Bah (4,220) Dec 1, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I apologize in advance for the newbie questions but I've done some research and would love to hear from the group on this as well. My wife and I have brewed three extract kits with specialty grains and they've all come out beautifully. She is a very fastidious detail oriented woman so we clean the crap out of everything and go through the process carefully, letting nothing slip past our attention.

    Anyway we are not quite ready to move to all grain for a number of reasons, space in particular, but we would like to get away from kits now and start working from extract based recipes. I don't know if this overly ambitious or even possible but we would love to brew something along the lines of a Marshall Zhukov clone-a massive stout on the sweeter side of the ledger. So my questions:

    Anyone have a recipe that fits the bill?

    Would a beer like this sit in primary for a few weeks then get moved to secondary for extended aging? We will be visiting my parents in their large mountain house over Memorial Day weekend and considered brewing there and storing the primary. Not sure when we would be able to return to move to secondary. Could it just sit in the primary for months?

    What would an ideal temp for fermentation be on a beer of this magnitude? There are various places the beer could be stored, some of which are much cooler than others.

    I would brew this at home but we have limited space for multiple fermenters. We do have the advantage of much closer monitoring of temp though.

    Thanks all. Fire away.
     
    #1 tobelerone, May 21, 2013
  2. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    I think you should look into partial mashes. It will be difficult to get the mouthfeel you probably desire without a partial mash. Just my opinion though.
     
    #2 Mag00n, May 21, 2013
  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    If you're question is can you make a RIS, then yes. Can you make a clone of MZ with extract...I think it would be difficult.

    At your point in the brewing game, I think I'd just look up a tried and true RIS recipe on homebrewtalk...and go from there.

    Just my .02.
     
    #3 JohnSnowNW, May 21, 2013
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Is Marshall Zhukov an Oatmeal Stout? If not, I can't think of any grains typically used in a stout that can't be covered directly with extracts and steepable specialty grains. Why the concern about mouthfeel? (If anything, I'd say typical light DME's provide at least as much body as their home-mashed equivalents, due to some amount of carapils being added in the extract manufacturing process.) Or is there something special about Marshall Zhukov?
     
    #4 VikeMan, May 21, 2013
  5. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    CCB heavy stouts are kinda notorious for a super thick mouthfeel. Youd know better than I but I just kinda assumed youd want some oatmeal and maybe some extended mash time but that was just my guess.
     
    #5 Mag00n, May 21, 2013
  6. standardcherry

    standardcherry Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2011 Massachusetts

    Oh this is interesting. I don't know about steeping grains + extract. Curious if there's some all-grain recipes out there, Google has not been helpful with this.
     
    #6 standardcherry, May 22, 2013
  7. TheMonkfish

    TheMonkfish Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2012 Chad

    I had searched for AG recipes for some of the best RIS out there a few months back - Marshal Zhukov was one on my wish list to brew a clone of but I couldn't find a recipe per se (I ended up making kind of a hybrid generic RIS - 1.031 FG). If you have your heart set on MZ then you may want to shoot Wayne Wambles at CCB an email - he's supposedly cool with helping local homebrewers with info for some of his brews.
     
    #7 TheMonkfish, May 22, 2013
  8. standardcherry

    standardcherry Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2011 Massachusetts

    Awesome thanks for the info!
     
    #8 standardcherry, May 22, 2013
  9. MaltHouse

    MaltHouse Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2012 Pennsylvania

    You can do a RIS with extract and some steeping grain. Steeping some roasted barley, chocolate malt and black patent will give you plenty of dark color and coffee flavors. CC says it has "hints of black strap molasses", molasses is an easy adjunct for extract brewers and gives a very distinct mouthfeel. Dark Candi sugar would probably work too. Here's a recipe that says it's similar to MZ, you might want to skip the cherry though:
    http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/936101

    I wouldn't sweat the temp too much, a big, dark beer like that and you're not gonna notice much else besides the malt and booze. I would definitely age it for a while. I wouldn't keep it in primary for months (plural) but a month, sure, then bottle age it until winter.
     
    #9 MaltHouse, May 22, 2013
  10. tobelerone

    tobelerone Grand Pooh-Bah (4,220) Dec 1, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks to all for the responses. I will continue to do some research and dig into the subject. One thing I'm still unclear on is whether something like this could be made with only a primary and whether racking to secondary is necessary or recommended, and when the move would/should be made. Could one simply ferment in primary until bottling, then age in bottles?
     
    #10 tobelerone, May 22, 2013
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    "Could one simply ferment in primary until bottling, then age in bottles?" Yes!

    Cheers!
     
    #11 JackHorzempa, May 22, 2013
  12. joshodonn

    joshodonn Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2011 Florida

    I found an AG recipe that I think is a decent attempt at a MZ clone. It's by no means MZ, and it took it a good year in the keg to mellow out, but it's drinking awesome right now. FYI MZ is the base beer for Huna, so can just withhold adding the 'Huna' spices

    Recipe is here:

    http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/221752

    If I recall I added a pound of flaked barley to this as well to help increase the thickness. I'll have to check my Beersmith notes later when I'm on my PC and not my iPad
     
    #12 joshodonn, May 22, 2013
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    To the OP: note that flaked barley is not a steepable grain. So if you wanted to use it, you'd be looking at at least a mini-mash, including some diastatic base malt to convert the flaked barley.
     
    #13 VikeMan, May 22, 2013
  14. tobelerone

    tobelerone Grand Pooh-Bah (4,220) Dec 1, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks for all the advice guys. I may post one or two extract imperial stout recipes I found to get some opinions soon. Giving up on brewing this weekend and will just do this at home in the next few weeks. Would love to hear your thoughts and/or tweaks on the recipes I've found.

    I am particularly partial to a very full and smooth mouthfeel with moderate carbonation in an imperial stout, without excessive dryness. Recipes to come.
     
    #14 tobelerone, May 23, 2013
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