Extract vs All Grain

I am simply reporting what I learned from a verbal conversation.

Do conversations have "links"?

Cheers!

 

Extract twang exists as much as all grain twang, in most cases, it's the user not the raw material. As previously stated, if you know what you are doing DME can be as good or better than all grain, depending on your available resources (time, money, ...)

 

I'd encourage anyone to take a look at the winning recipes from any NHC second round. Pick any year. Count up the all grain recipes and the extract recipes. I did this once (2013 IIRC), and there was only one extract recipe: a Berliner Weiss.

I know someone will say "That's because virtually all NHC entries are All Grain." I don't know it that's true, but if it is, that's telling in itself.

My take is:

All Grain Advantages
Freshness (lack of oxidation)
Control over fermentability of wort
Much wider availability of grain types
Control over water profile
Cost

Extract Advantages
Time
Easier process

 

Let me ask you...

Why would it depend what kind of beer you're making? If extract is not an inferior product, why wouldn't you use it for a malt-forward beer?

Why do you prefer all-grain brewing?

In all seriousness, I think @VikeMan summed up the pros and cons pretty well.

 

I agree with much of what was said above. As a brewer who started with extract then tried BIAB and landed on Mini-mash let me throw my pennies in:

1) Better to make an extract brew than nothing at all. All grain can be intimidating.
2) The quality (freshness) of the extract matters, especially with LME
3) How you handle the extract matters. Most kit instructions tell you to put it in at the start of boiling. It is ridiculously easy to burn it that way. I like Palmer's method of adding part (or all in my case) at the end of boil.
4) If your sanitation/fermentation procedures aren't good, none of it will matter in the end.

For the reasons that @VikeMan listed, All-Grain is more customizable than extract. Why did I go mini-mash then? Well partly a security blanket and partly because it helps minimize the varying efficiencies i get when mashing.

 

Of course! I don't mean to talk down about extract to that degree. I doubt I'd have even started brewing if all-grain were the only option. That's a much larger financial commitment, and it further complicates the already daunting task of learning to brew.

For me, the fun in brewing is coming up with my own recipes and customizing my process. Extract brewing is limited in that regard, but it was a great foothold to get me started.

 

I would agree with this from the perspective of someone who has never done it before. Having done it for years the sentiment seems quite overwrought. I mean, you mix a measured amount of grain with a measured amount of water at a certain temperature, let it rest for a while, and than strain it into your brewpot at a measured rate. Pretty easy in my book.

 

Because with just extract you don't have the capacity to perform different mash regimes, have the variety of malts from which to choose, or vary the percentages of said variety of malts.

You certainly could, but, again, it would depend what your goal was for the beer. An all extract stout or doppelbock would probably not fulfill your goals as much as an all extract amber ale or lager.

 

To you perhaps, but not to a new brewer. And those are the people we want to encourage.

 

Agreed on both counts.

 

I agree that new brewers can find the idea of All Grain intimidating. But for the adventurous, it's really within the reach of most, if they are willing to put in some time to read and plan. I know guys who have done all grain beginning with their very first batch.

Still, most people will say it's better to get some extract batches under your belt first. I think some of that sentiment is because that's what "How to Brew" recommends (or at least implies). And I think Palmer (and others) were influenced by the fact that back-in-the-day, extract was the only possibility. When all grain became a possibility for homebrew, experienced brewers started trying it, and then saw extract as the "beginner" method...after all, that's how they started.

I wonder...if All Grain had been the early reality (say in the 1970s), and then this thing called Malt Extract had come along, if people still would have grabbed onto extract brewing as the logical first step.

 

I would suspect they still would push extract as a first step. NB and all them tout their extract 1 gallon kits as doable in 90 minutes and virtually foolproof.

 

The margin on extracts is higher than for Malt.

One way to learn how to brew all grain is to find someone in your area to show you how.

It is not that hard. Really!

 

A friend of my friend just recently started homebrewing (a couple of years). He reached out to me for help in brewing a Wit. I informed him that to produce a Wit properly (IMO) he would need to mash with raw wheat. I helped him put together a mini-mash recipe. He felt nervous about the mashing process (e.g., obtaining a proper mash pH, etc.) so I volunteered to go over to his house and help. I was there for the beginning portion (i.e., the mash aspect) and he finished up on his own. His Wit turned out excellent.

We can all be helpful to beginner homebrewers.

Cheers!

 

People with lots of space would have probably just started with grain. Thing to remember is that LOTS of people brew in apartments where their space is limited, so extract on the stovetop is the only way to brew.

 

I know it's not that hard... now.

Back when I started, I didn't care how easy anyone said it was. I didn't have anyone I knew to help me out, so I learned literally everything by reading online. Extract was hard enough to get a grasp on. Once I was comfortable with that part of the process, sure, adding in the mash was easy. However, I am almost certain that I never would have started if I had to go all-grain right off the bat.

Also, I think part if the appeal is that you can often do it with the equipment you already have in your kitchen, plus a couple little things like a hydrometer and sanitizer. All-grain requires a sizable (for the beginner) investment. You can spend a lot of money on extract brewing, sure, but the barrier to entry is much lower.

 

FWIW - It cost me ~$150 to upgrade from extract to AG by re purposing or buying used equipment from locals. I don't think the root of this argument should be about money though considering it's all relative.

Have you guys ever tasted extract out of the bag/container?

Devils advocate time

I wonder if the Briess taste experiment used extract in that brew that literally just finished being manufactured.
Or was made directly after their processing equipment was maintenanced/cleaned (imagine what kinda mess that place COULD be)
Or if their marketing team lied to you... after all homebrewing is close to a billion dollar industry (Circa 2013) in the US, not to mention the fact that there would be no true way to tell.

 

Unsure of your point with this. It's like saying, "ever chew on malted barley?"

 

Just wondering if anyone else has. I have, and I don't like the taste.

 

Along with chewing grain (which I don't understand), it's also like people tasting their runoff or wort before they ferment it. Never thought that had much bearing on what the final product would taste like. Maybe that's just me?