Extract vs all grain

I didn't interpret your comment that way. I was simply trying to understand why you feel that AG and extract have different burner requirements with the goal of, perhaps, dispelling a misconception on your part.

 

there's a bit of a learning curve with most aspects of this hobby obsession addiction.

Fixed.

 

I havent tried an all grain beer from anyone yet so I wouldnt know the difference.. I would like to try out an all grain brew but I havent picked up the equipment yet. Not to mention im still trying to get the hop profile down that I want to perfect to my tastes with partial mash before I head into all grain. The all grain seems pretty simple to me just havent done it yet.

 

Great book. A classic. But it is 15 years old now, and the data is older than that. I'm not sure about this, but my guess is that the ingredients of the NHC second round beers would be different if he were to gather the data today. I remember a lot of homebrewers used 5 gallon mash tuns 10-15 years ago. For example, I used to use the Charlie Papazian style Zapap mash tun in the mid nineties. I would have been very difficult to brew a big barleywine or RIS without using some extract. Since then I have gone through quite a few "upgrades".

 

Our all grain beers are superior to extract, which we did for over a year. They are cleaner tasting, better mouthfeel, just generally better. But not by a lot. The main thing is how much cheaper it is to do it. Truth told, if it was the same price and always super fresh, I would switch back to extract and steeping grains, and do only the occasional all grain.

 

I voted for all grain, but since I haven't brewed with extract in 18 years it might be interesting to see if I can brew what I consider good beer with extract now. There were lots of reasons my extract beers sucked in the early 90's, I'm sure most of them had nothing to do with the extract. But my main problem with extract is that it's too easy.

 

The last time I brewed a 10 gallon batch of RIS I had to break out my my old ZapPap to handle the amount of grain I was mashing. But I never considered using extract.

 

I can agree totally. I very recently drank the last bottle of an extract RIS I made over two years ago, it was the last bottle of extract beer I had and was delicious.

My first few AG batches were okay, but I've improved my results and expanded in amount brewed and variety of styles. I've gotten more consistent, there's still okay batches and outstanding ones. I've taken that RIS recipe and made it three times as AG, the first never carbonated, the second is outstanding and I'm saving it until this fall. the third is currently in primary and once it's bottled I'll keep my hands off until winter 2014

 

with extraxt beers you do not have to worry about mash PH or water profile, because it's already taken care of. I found out the hard way that darker grains inpact the pH of the mash and will result in grain bitterness that never disipates. I have a couple 4 yr old bottles from this batch that are still astringent/bitterness and not in a good way.
That being said some people have extremely good palates and can tell a difference when the brewer of an extract is still starting out. I do believe extracts can be brewed with experience and they cannot be told apart. Some have won major awards. I prefer to stick with all grain and the setup I have now makes it almost as easy and can do a brewday from start to finish in under 4 hours. (this includes cleanup)

 

If you've won gold medals there is a good chance you have the process down. I went to all grain on my second batch. There are a lot of process things to learn with all grain that extract can not help with. That being said, I still suppliment some of my bigger beers with some added extract due to my mash tun size limiting how much grain I can fit, and those beers come out great. If you're doing partial mash, you're darn near doing all grain anyway, except for the equipment aspect.

 

I only brag about my good beers. The batch after winning my first competition was a wreck. I don't even like to drink it. It was bad from top to bottom. So I am back to my old process, and have a niice IPA fermenting away in secondary right now. I just picked up a 15 gallon brew pot, which is a step towards all grain for me. I also have picked up a heater for fermenting, so I can really ddial in my fermentations. Once I can brew the same beer twice, and have it come out the same, I'll look towards all grain. Until then I'm happy with where I am and where I'm going with this happy little experiment.

 

Speaking of this subject .. Check out the article I was reading today. Apparently the best way to get a well rounded bitterness and maximum hop flavor in an IPA is all late hops additions. Article claims all hops added after the 40 min boil mark make for better flavor and aroma. Some of the brewers are increasing the amount of hops and not adding them until the 15, 10, 5, and 0 min marks.
I would upload the pdf document but I cant see where to on this forum... anyone ?

 

It's called hopbursting, although the precise definition is sometimes debated, e.g. all whirlpool hops, or all late hops, or mostly late hops, etc.

You can't upload stuff to BA. You would have to hang it on a server somewhere and link to it.

 

You ever try it ?

 

Found another copy .. Late Hopping and a recipe for Evil twin

http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

 

Depending on the definition, yes. Here's a recipe that I would say is fairly well bursted that a few people on this forum have brewed/are brewing...
http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...rfect-american-ipa-project-the-recipes.74647/

 

THanks for the write up .. only difference is the other guys dont have a 60m addition of hops at all.. they dont add until 20m or 15m left in the boil. Curious how that would be.

 

Heh. You could argue that the APA IPA doesn't really have a 60 minute addition either.

But the whole idea is that by using a lot more hops, and using them later, you can get the same level of bitterness with more flavor and aroma. It's not really a new concept, though I suspect more people are doing it and/or carrying it to extremes than say, a couple years ago. We've always known that the later you add hops, the more flavor/aroma. That's why most styles typically have some hops after 60 minutes.

 

Understood ! Thanks man

 

I tend to get better attenuation with all grain. Never fully ferment with extract heavy beers.