Factual site additions

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by BigIronH, May 8, 2022.

  1. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    I’ve noticed it seems like more and more I’m coming across beers that get added with absolutely no notes, improper ABV, a misspelled name, etc. Essentially, I understand wanting to contribute to the site by adding beers, but if you’re not going to put any effort into it or make sure your contribution is factual and correct, you’re not really helping anyone. If you’re just doing it for internet points, that’s not in very good taste especially if you’re not going to do it right. Overall, I just want to call upon those of us that choose to make those contributions to police ourselves a little better. Cheers.
  2. AWA

    AWA Defender (613) Jul 22, 2014 California

    Thank you. I know a couple of times I wanted to add a beer, but I just wasn't in a good place, and I didn't want to fuck up an entry. So I just didn't, and amazingly enough, someone else did, and did it correctly.
  3. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    My personal rule of thumb is to just not add random beers from unfamiliar breweries and especially not from Untappd listings as those are messed up even more often. The talk of merging the databases from the two sites really scares me. Cheers.
  4. AWA

    AWA Defender (613) Jul 22, 2014 California

    Right there with you brother.
  5. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Poo-Bah (9,724) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    I have no facts to back this up, but; I've noticed that folks that have never been to a given brewery, or seemingly consumed any product from that brewery, add a lot of brews from various breweries.

    It's almost like they just troll various brewery websites and add what they see to BA.

    Naw, people don't care that much about internet "fame", right?
  6. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    I’ve noticed it too. And I wouldn’t even have a problem with it if they’d add some notes and get the ABV correct. What good does it do to add some random beer that’s 2000 miles away from you if a guy who’s actually drinking the beer has to make a bunch of edits to your addition?
  7. cjgiant

    cjgiant Poo-Bah (5,852) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia

    I won’t argue the larger point on doing one’s best to be correct and as informative as possible when adding a beer, but will play devil’s advocate on ABV accuracy, specifically. I have seen cases in mainly small, young breweries where batch variation has led to a few tenths (usually) difference in stated ABV. It seems you might be running into incorrect ABV more frequently than I, so this explanation might not fit; just thought I’d point it out as something to consider.
  8. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    I don’t add notes when I add beers because the site doesn’t just let you do it while adding the beer, ABV and style. When they do, then I’ll add notes.
  9. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,373) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    It's not really a difficult step to go back to the entry and add notes. I find it more difficult to find actual notes at some breweries' sites -- or transcribe the novels they've put in small fonts on the can or bottle.
  10. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    It may not be very difficult, but it’s more difficult than just being able to add them along with the name, ABV and style. When that’s available, I’ll add notes.
  11. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    Fair enough. As long as you’re not adding incorrect information then I think most of us can tolerate this to a degree. I’m mostly talking about the people who add thousands of beers for no reason other than points and make no attempt to make the information actually valuable to someone. Cheers.
    dbl_delta and DrStiffington like this.
  12. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    I generally stick to adding new beers from local NJ breweries. And I don’t think notes are all that important anyway. I assume the site doesn’t either, or they would require them to be posted.
    lucius10, meanmutt and Amendm like this.
  13. Amendm

    Amendm Meyvn (1,018) Jun 7, 2018 Florida

    I haven't seen many mistakes on added beers, but I do think it's a waste when someone adds a beer two years before someone else rates/reviews it.

    If one is looking for points one could actually drink and review a beer.

    p.s. I hate it when I attempt to add a new beer that someone else added without trying it first.
    Squire, IKR, rodbeermunch and 2 others like this.
  14. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    Me too. Especially when that person is thousands of miles away and is clearly just adding the beer for points. Extra irritation when they fuck up the ABV or the name of the beer.
    Squire, BBThunderbolt and Amendm like this.
  15. puck1225

    puck1225 Poo-Bah (3,927) Dec 22, 2013 Texas
    Society Trader

    For myself, I only add beers that I have actually consumed and have the full and accurate data from the brewery. In addition, I immediately review all beers I add. From my point of view, this really is the only legitimate practice.
    DrOfGolf, Rug, ZebulonXZogg and 7 others like this.
  16. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    +1 for this method.
    hopsputin likes this.
  17. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (8,045) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming

    I check the package, then I check Untappd. If they match, I submit an edit for notes for that beer.
  18. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (8,045) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming

    If I only have one of the beers, I do that. If I have more than one, I review it with the second beer.
    puck1225 and BigIronH like this.
  19. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,387) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania

    A lot of beers just don't get added these days. When I'm checking out the tap list of a place I plan to visit, often times most of them aren't in the database. Hell sometimes the whole brewery isn't in the database. I think my adding them even if I don't drink/rate them is a good deed. It takes time and I don't care about the points (unless a fez is at stake), I just want a robust database.
  20. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    I agree. I tend to add local breweries’ new beers when I see them on IG. I feel like I’m doing the brewery, the BA site, and other users a favor by adding the beer. Doesn’t mean I have to run right out, buy the beer, drink it and review it immediately. Seems like an odd pov to feel like you shouldn’t add a beer unless you review it at the same time.
    Gagnonsux, lucius10, BigIronH and 7 others like this.
  21. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (8,252) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    As one who does add a lot of beers, I certainly make mistakes in names, style, ABV, etc. But I usually catch those mistakes and "pester" the mods about my mistakes and that more often than not fixes things.

    On the subject of notes, I do try to add those, even if it's only the brewery's description of the style from the bottle or can label (especially when the BA beer categories don't readily match how the brewery describes the beer).

    Finally, if I add a beer, it's because I have it (or shortly will) and do rate/review it.

    So, yeah, adding beers with screwed up data can be fixed with the report an update option. And it would be nice if the people adding new beers (for whatever reason) took the time to input accurate data, but I also have no problem reporting "updates" myself if something in error slips through the cracks.
    DrOfGolf, Rug, puck1225 and 6 others like this.
  22. sulldaddy

    sulldaddy Poo-Bah (4,389) Apr 6, 2003 Connecticut
    Society Trader

    Figured I would chime in here.
    I add a lot of beers and review a lot of beers
    Obviously, try not to enter erroneuos info when adding a beer.

    I do try to add beers even with out drinking them, which I think enhances the BA Database as a resource for beer hunting etc.
    I dont randomly chase brewery pages, but If I add a beer from a brewery, I will sometimes check what else is currently available at the brewery. Next I take info from the brewery page and add in any unlisted beers to our site.
    I dont do this as often as I would like, but I think its a good practice to be used to strengthen the value of this site as a craft beer resource.
    Rug, jakecattleco, BigIronH and 6 others like this.
  23. slander

    slander Poo-Bah (2,342) Nov 5, 2001 New York
    Moderator Society

    Been doing site maintenance (beerfly guide, global beerfly guide, site editor, moderator, et al) for like a dozen and a half years here now. The number of new place set ups without complete and accurate information would make your head spin.

    The number of missing easily Google-able correct names, full addresses (and yes, that includes a zip code), phone numbers, web site links, etc. is astounding.

    I've had people put their own name on the 'name' line (thank you but we were looking for the establishment name here). I particularly like when you 'round up' something suburban to the nearest big city.

    I've had people attempt to add obviously-already-in-the-database-establishments because they're just too damn lazy to check first and sure, it's reasonable that you've found this cool clearly been around for a while bar called Monk's Cafe, Falling Rock Tap House, Toronado, Hopleaf, The Blind Tiger, Max's Tap House, The Map Room, Novares Res Bier Cafe, Spuyten Duyvil, Brick Store Pub, Churchkey, Torst, or Armsby Abbey and nobody's thought to set it up before.

    And I regularly see where people don't tag the establishment for the type of place that it is. It's a brewery and that's it, huh? Let me see, click website link, see pics of growlers and cans, tag 'sells beer to go', see people sitting at the bar drinking, tag 'has a designated area for drinking', see people eating food, tag 'has a kitchen / sells food'.

    Thanks for the quarterass effort there (that's half of a halfass effort).
    Seriously. Get your act together!
    #23 slander, May 10, 2022 at 5:36 PM
    Last edited: May 11, 2022 at 2:56 PM
    DrOfGolf, snaotheus, Rug and 14 others like this.
  24. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    Glad a mod finally weighed in here. Thanks for your feedback. I personally do my best to be as accurate and complete as possible. If I do mess up, I try to get in contact with a mod and let them know my errors before they’re stumbled upon by an unsuspecting user. It seems a lot of folks think adding to the site is a good thing in and of itself, which I agree with as long as the contribution is actually meaningful. Cheers.
    Rug, FBarber, jakecattleco and 2 others like this.
  25. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    I get how it can be annoying to find incorrect info on the site, but I’m not sure how we define “meaningful.” Like a lot of users, I come on BA to interact, read posts, check reviews and generally have fun. I think it’s good perspective not to take any of this too seriously.
  26. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,387) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I appreciate what you folks do, hope I was never a pain in your backside.
  27. kp7

    kp7 Initiate (88) Feb 8, 2021 Massachusetts

    While I'm new to BA and can't comment on most of your post, I want to relate an experience I had this week that highlights the issue above. I would guess that you are correct, most times people just don't check. But in some cases it is the site design that causes the issue.

    Earlier this week I was looking at the website for a brewery that I've been hoping to get some beer from (Lost Towns Brewing in central MA, https://ltbrew.com/) and figured I would check BA to see what others had experienced. I searched for it, didn't find it, and then submitted a new place request. Only after I submitted did I realize that I had searched for lost town and not lost towns. A search for lost towns found the brewery in the BA database.

    There are two issues here:
    1. The search algorithm is opaque. I didn't think the search would be so stringent without denoting the search term in quotes. A search for lost town not returning lost towns? Come on.
    2. More importantly, there is no way to track (or retract) requests. I could have easily deleted the place addition request, or added a note saying to disregard it because I messed up and it is already in the database, but I couldn't do so. Instead it was gone into the BA mod queue and likely added to the annoyance that slander describes.
    So this is just to defend slightly those who are trying to contribute in a conscientious way, but simply don't know all of the particulars of how BA works in certain circumstances and can inadvertently add to the sense of sloppy submissions.
    Rug, alexsergio, JamFuel and 11 others like this.
  28. DoctorZombies

    DoctorZombies Poo-Bah (4,204) Feb 1, 2015 Florida
    Society Trader

    I see that all the time with some of the breweries near me…someone out of State adds a new release, has never had the beer and likely has never set foot in the brewery…
    BBThunderbolt, ChicagoJ and BigIronH like this.
  29. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    For a long time user this makes a lot of sense and I get where you’re coming from. For a new user who googles a beer they see as part of a craft tap list at their favorite bar, and is redirected to that beers page here on BA, I feel like we all intend for the new users initial interactions here to be as informative and correct as possible. This is how I classify “meaningful” information.
    Rug likes this.
  30. jvgoor3786

    jvgoor3786 Poo-Bah (2,282) May 28, 2015 Arkansas
    Society Trader

    So it's not just me? I usually only add beers I've had. I get unreasonably annoyed when I try to add a new beer from a local brewery that doesn't distribute only to find out some dude from Ohio added six beers from the brewery without rating or reviewing any of them. I also tried to add a new brewery this weekend. I thought it wasn't in the database because there were no beers listed for it. I found later it was already entered but no beers were added, rated, or reviewed. I'm usually not easily annoyed, but some things....
    ChicagoJ, Resistance88 and BigIronH like this.
  31. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,387) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania

    So you're annoyed when they add beers and you're annoyed when they don't? I just don't get why this matters to anyone. When I'm reviewing a beer, I'm glad when I don't have to add it.
    alexsergio, lucius10, FBarber and 7 others like this.
  32. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Meyvn (1,456) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    This exactly. I understand wanting info put in correctly but otherwise I don’t get some of the points being made here. I love the comment I got above that as long as I was not inputting info incorrectly the other users “could tolerate this to a degree” if I don’t review the beer right away. Haha get over yourselves. Jesus! Thank you for tolerating it! If only to a degree. Whew. I was worried there.
    CBlack85, PapaGoose03 and DIM like this.
  33. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,387) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I think everyone in this thread, me included, should relax and have a beer tonight.:beers:
  34. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Disciple (356) Apr 9, 2015 California

    Welcome to BA, comes with a stick for your ass for many on here apparently

    Have a beer. We all gonna die anyhow

    Rug, ZebulonXZogg, CBlack85 and 3 others like this.
  35. BigIronH

    BigIronH Meyvn (1,364) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Society Trader

    My only point there was that a beer name and style without any context doesn’t really do anyone any good if they’re searching a beer database for details about a beer. With regard to the rest of your comment, this thread revolves around incorrect details being added, and the irritation that causes not only long time users, but the confusion it causes a newcomer. If we agree on that alone, we’re on the same page here. Cheers, my friend.
    BBThunderbolt and DrStiffington like this.
  36. Manta200

    Manta200 Poo-Bah (2,179) Apr 14, 2018 Kentucky
    Society Trader

    Let's add another twist to the whole subject: Sometimes not even the brewery can get the facts of their own beer right!!!
    I have been to taprooms where the beer on the big (handwritten) board behind the bar, the menu on the table and the listing on their website were ALL DIFFERENT!
    And if you ask, nobody seems to know what's "correct". They actually don't care. I bet that most BAs take that beer listing more serious than the brewer that makes it. It is becoming increasingly difficult to have the listing "right". Breweries rename their beer, just like that. Of course you make a new entry. Just to find out later that it is the same beer you entered two years ago. This is no excuse for sloppy or careless listings, please don't misunderstand!
    I came to the conclusion that you just have to let it go sometimes. I care more about a healthy blood pressure than a beer listing.

  37. jvgoor3786

    jvgoor3786 Poo-Bah (2,282) May 28, 2015 Arkansas
    Society Trader

    No. In both cases they appeared to add something to the database without being there. They added a place without ever going and beers without ever trying. If you recall, I said my annoyance was unreasonable. Why do I care if someone added it without ever trying it? I have no idea. Why did you care enough about my post to respond? Life's a mystery sometimes.
    sulldaddy, BigIronH and DIM like this.
  38. dbl_delta

    dbl_delta Poo-Bah (3,428) Sep 22, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Agree. Perhaps I'm spoiled by Google, but inexact searching is today's norm. A search for "lost town" should certainly return "lost towns" since "lost town" is a subset of the query. I run into that frequently. A more robust search engine might save a bunch of work for the mods.

    LOL. I've had a couple "oh, shit" moments with beer and/or place additions, and there's no way to retract the incorrect post. Maybe a ten minute grace period before locking in a new entry?
  39. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,387) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania

    lol, touche!
    jvgoor3786 and DrStiffington like this.
  40. md3kcn

    md3kcn Devotee (442) Feb 4, 2021 North Carolina

    Perhaps getting rid of the "Beer Karma" system would discourage this sort of thing from happening?
    It doesn't serve a purpose, aside from bragging rights - but why brag about Internet points if they have no meaning, or are indicators of a critic's knowledge of beer?
    Internet fame and social media as a whole is a mistake and plague on society that leads to major problems like the one OP is describing, where factual inaccuracies litter a once good community.
    Just a thought.