Factual site additions

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by BigIronH, May 8, 2022.

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  1. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    As one who does add a lot of beers, I certainly make mistakes in names, style, ABV, etc. But I usually catch those mistakes and "pester" the mods about my mistakes and that more often than not fixes things.

    On the subject of notes, I do try to add those, even if it's only the brewery's description of the style from the bottle or can label (especially when the BA beer categories don't readily match how the brewery describes the beer).

    Finally, if I add a beer, it's because I have it (or shortly will) and do rate/review it.

    So, yeah, adding beers with screwed up data can be fixed with the report an update option. And it would be nice if the people adding new beers (for whatever reason) took the time to input accurate data, but I also have no problem reporting "updates" myself if something in error slips through the cracks.
     
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  2. sulldaddy

    sulldaddy Grand Pooh-Bah (5,716) Apr 6, 2003 Connecticut
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Figured I would chime in here.
    I add a lot of beers and review a lot of beers
    Obviously, try not to enter erroneuos info when adding a beer.

    I do try to add beers even with out drinking them, which I think enhances the BA Database as a resource for beer hunting etc.
    I dont randomly chase brewery pages, but If I add a beer from a brewery, I will sometimes check what else is currently available at the brewery. Next I take info from the brewery page and add in any unlisted beers to our site.
    I dont do this as often as I would like, but I think its a good practice to be used to strengthen the value of this site as a craft beer resource.
     
    Rug, jakecattleco, BigIronH and 6 others like this.
  3. slander

    slander Pooh-Bah (2,568) Nov 5, 2001 New York
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Been doing site maintenance (beerfly guide, global beerfly guide, site editor, moderator, et al) for like a dozen and a half years here now. The number of new place set ups without complete and accurate information would make your head spin.

    The number of missing easily Google-able correct names, full addresses (and yes, that includes a zip code), phone numbers, web site links, etc. is astounding.

    I've had people put their own name on the 'name' line (thank you but we were looking for the establishment name here). I particularly like when you 'round up' something suburban to the nearest big city.

    I've had people attempt to add obviously-already-in-the-database-establishments because they're just too damn lazy to check first and sure, it's reasonable that you've found this cool clearly been around for a while bar called Monk's Cafe, Falling Rock Tap House, Toronado, Hopleaf, The Blind Tiger, Max's Tap House, The Map Room, Novares Res Bier Cafe, Spuyten Duyvil, Brick Store Pub, Churchkey, Torst, or Armsby Abbey and nobody's thought to set it up before.

    And I regularly see where people don't tag the establishment for the type of place that it is. It's a brewery and that's it, huh? Let me see, click website link, see pics of growlers and cans, tag 'sells beer to go', see people sitting at the bar drinking, tag 'has a designated area for drinking', see people eating food, tag 'has a kitchen / sells food'.

    Thanks for the quarterass effort there (that's half of a halfass effort).
    Seriously. Get your act together!
     
    #23 slander, May 10, 2022
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  4. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Glad a mod finally weighed in here. Thanks for your feedback. I personally do my best to be as accurate and complete as possible. If I do mess up, I try to get in contact with a mod and let them know my errors before they’re stumbled upon by an unsuspecting user. It seems a lot of folks think adding to the site is a good thing in and of itself, which I agree with as long as the contribution is actually meaningful. Cheers.
     
    Rug, FBarber, jakecattleco and 2 others like this.
  5. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Grand Pooh-Bah (3,740) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I get how it can be annoying to find incorrect info on the site, but I’m not sure how we define “meaningful.” Like a lot of users, I come on BA to interact, read posts, check reviews and generally have fun. I think it’s good perspective not to take any of this too seriously.
     
    Junior, BigIronH, Bitterbill and 2 others like this.
  6. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I appreciate what you folks do, hope I was never a pain in your backside.
     
  7. KP7

    KP7 Pooh-Bah (1,605) Feb 8, 2021 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    While I'm new to BA and can't comment on most of your post, I want to relate an experience I had this week that highlights the issue above. I would guess that you are correct, most times people just don't check. But in some cases it is the site design that causes the issue.

    Earlier this week I was looking at the website for a brewery that I've been hoping to get some beer from (Lost Towns Brewing in central MA, https://ltbrew.com/) and figured I would check BA to see what others had experienced. I searched for it, didn't find it, and then submitted a new place request. Only after I submitted did I realize that I had searched for lost town and not lost towns. A search for lost towns found the brewery in the BA database.

    There are two issues here:
    1. The search algorithm is opaque. I didn't think the search would be so stringent without denoting the search term in quotes. A search for lost town not returning lost towns? Come on.
    2. More importantly, there is no way to track (or retract) requests. I could have easily deleted the place addition request, or added a note saying to disregard it because I messed up and it is already in the database, but I couldn't do so. Instead it was gone into the BA mod queue and likely added to the annoyance that slander describes.
    So this is just to defend slightly those who are trying to contribute in a conscientious way, but simply don't know all of the particulars of how BA works in certain circumstances and can inadvertently add to the sense of sloppy submissions.
     
  8. DoctorZombies

    DoctorZombies Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,827) Feb 1, 2015 Florida
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I see that all the time with some of the breweries near me…someone out of State adds a new release, has never had the beer and likely has never set foot in the brewery…
     
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  9. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    For a long time user this makes a lot of sense and I get where you’re coming from. For a new user who googles a beer they see as part of a craft tap list at their favorite bar, and is redirected to that beers page here on BA, I feel like we all intend for the new users initial interactions here to be as informative and correct as possible. This is how I classify “meaningful” information.
     
    Rug likes this.
  10. jvgoor3786

    jvgoor3786 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,222) May 28, 2015 Arkansas
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    So it's not just me? I usually only add beers I've had. I get unreasonably annoyed when I try to add a new beer from a local brewery that doesn't distribute only to find out some dude from Ohio added six beers from the brewery without rating or reviewing any of them. I also tried to add a new brewery this weekend. I thought it wasn't in the database because there were no beers listed for it. I found later it was already entered but no beers were added, rated, or reviewed. I'm usually not easily annoyed, but some things....
     
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  11. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    So you're annoyed when they add beers and you're annoyed when they don't? I just don't get why this matters to anyone. When I'm reviewing a beer, I'm glad when I don't have to add it.
     
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  12. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Grand Pooh-Bah (3,740) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This exactly. I understand wanting info put in correctly but otherwise I don’t get some of the points being made here. I love the comment I got above that as long as I was not inputting info incorrectly the other users “could tolerate this to a degree” if I don’t review the beer right away. Haha get over yourselves. Jesus! Thank you for tolerating it! If only to a degree. Whew. I was worried there.
     
  13. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think everyone in this thread, me included, should relax and have a beer tonight.:beers:
     
  14. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,462) Apr 9, 2015 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Welcome to BA, comes with a stick for your ass for many on here apparently

    Have a beer. We all gonna die anyhow

    Cheers
     
    Rug, ZebulonXZogg, CBlack85 and 3 others like this.
  15. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    My only point there was that a beer name and style without any context doesn’t really do anyone any good if they’re searching a beer database for details about a beer. With regard to the rest of your comment, this thread revolves around incorrect details being added, and the irritation that causes not only long time users, but the confusion it causes a newcomer. If we agree on that alone, we’re on the same page here. Cheers, my friend.
     
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  16. Manta200

    Manta200 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,616) Apr 14, 2018 Kentucky
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Let's add another twist to the whole subject: Sometimes not even the brewery can get the facts of their own beer right!!!
    I have been to taprooms where the beer on the big (handwritten) board behind the bar, the menu on the table and the listing on their website were ALL DIFFERENT!
    And if you ask, nobody seems to know what's "correct". They actually don't care. I bet that most BAs take that beer listing more serious than the brewer that makes it. It is becoming increasingly difficult to have the listing "right". Breweries rename their beer, just like that. Of course you make a new entry. Just to find out later that it is the same beer you entered two years ago. This is no excuse for sloppy or careless listings, please don't misunderstand!
    I came to the conclusion that you just have to let it go sometimes. I care more about a healthy blood pressure than a beer listing.

    Prost!
     
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  17. jvgoor3786

    jvgoor3786 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,222) May 28, 2015 Arkansas
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    No. In both cases they appeared to add something to the database without being there. They added a place without ever going and beers without ever trying. If you recall, I said my annoyance was unreasonable. Why do I care if someone added it without ever trying it? I have no idea. Why did you care enough about my post to respond? Life's a mystery sometimes.
     
  18. dbl_delta

    dbl_delta Grand Pooh-Bah (4,001) Sep 22, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Agree. Perhaps I'm spoiled by Google, but inexact searching is today's norm. A search for "lost town" should certainly return "lost towns" since "lost town" is a subset of the query. I run into that frequently. A more robust search engine might save a bunch of work for the mods.

    LOL. I've had a couple "oh, shit" moments with beer and/or place additions, and there's no way to retract the incorrect post. Maybe a ten minute grace period before locking in a new entry?
     
  19. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    lol, touche!
     
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  20. md3kcn

    md3kcn Savant (1,130) Feb 4, 2021 North Carolina
    Trader

    Perhaps getting rid of the "Beer Karma" system would discourage this sort of thing from happening?
    It doesn't serve a purpose, aside from bragging rights - but why brag about Internet points if they have no meaning, or are indicators of a critic's knowledge of beer?
    Internet fame and social media as a whole is a mistake and plague on society that leads to major problems like the one OP is describing, where factual inaccuracies litter a once good community.
    Just a thought.
     
    distantmantra likes this.
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