Fantome last year new styles ...

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by danybrew, Feb 24, 2020.

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  1. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    not sure of what examples you have in mind but the examples from the article i posted (prairie and jester king) aren't just some upstarts who went out of their way to adopt green bottles. Is it even a thing broadly in american beer? I have seen Le Petit Prince in green bottles but that's it
     
  2. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    Well, they're both under a decade old (closer to half a decade old when they started using green bottles), and they went far enough out of their way to make a big deal of the practice in the press a few years ago. Green bottles really never were a part of the American craft brewing tradition in a big way as they have been in Europe (cue @jesskidden with a bunch of early craft-beer-in-green-bottles examples). I do think the American breweries that experiment with green bottles are hoping for the reaction, "Wow, isn't that different! Seems kinda exotic and sophisticated. I have to try that!" (i.e., it is in part a gimmick, per @keithmurray's contention), whereas that's really not a factor for the European breweries using green bottles.

    I'll liken it to the chants and group-singing and scarves and banners and the like at soccer games (er, "football matches"): In Europe, they're authentic, organic expressions of real passion in forms deeply rooted in the widespread local cultures. In the United States, they're LARPing exercises, excuses for adults to dress up and play European for a couple hours; they're not actually living and dying with the outcome of the Real Salt Lake game.
     
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  3. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, if you insist :grin:[​IMG]

    The first one that comes to mind is Manhattan Gold from the Manhattan Brewing Co. (best remembered these days as the brewery where Garrett Oliver got his start, although probably after this beer, contract-brewed by The Lion, disappeared?). Manhattan even bottled some beers in a proprietary triangular-shaped clear bottle. :astonished:

    The other green craft example I can think of, a bit of an outlier, since it was a very dark green "champagne split" 6.3 oz. bottle used by Anchor for early batches of Old Foghorn, but I'd guess there were some others.

    But, yeah, in general I'd say it's safe to say "Green bottles really never were a part of the American craft brewing tradition in a big way..."

    (And, no, despite their B.A. "craft brewer" designation, I don't consider that Yuengling's use of green glass for Traditional Lager falls into this topic. They'd long put Chesterfield Ale in green bottles [mostly], which was a tradition in the US, and, as seen in that image for a short time even used them for the Porter, too.)
     
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  4. hopsputin

    hopsputin Grand Pooh-Bah (4,403) Apr 1, 2012 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Wish I could comment, but I too haven’t seen any in yearsss. Last (and first time) I had the Saison, I absolutely loved it though.
     
  5. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes and that is why the only people doing it in the US are doing it only for their beers that are very consciously trying to emulate European beer styles that have historically been packaged in green glass.
    Is using a coolship also just LARPing a bit at European beer tradition?
    If you're goal is to make wild ales in the style of cantillon or saisons in the style of dupont, why would you not at least experiment with using green bottles? Seems like an odd practice to deride considering the open declaration that these are the beers they are trying to emulate
     
  6. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I'm not deriding; I'm merely recognizing that gimmickry is an aspect of the practice, even if there's also legitimate, non-marketing merit. If they want to feature skunking as a flavor element, then clear bottles are a more efficient way to achieve that effect, but they may not look as appealing on the shelf. I do think some of the pious faithfulness of the "Méthode Traditionnelle" practices of American lambic producers, which often exceed those of Belgian lambic producers in their adherence to tradition, do veer into that LARPing-like territory. I wished they focused on making the best beer they can instead of making the most traditional beer they can, and that may involve different techniques if they were open to trying them (not that there isn't quite a bit to be learned and borrowed from traditional methods).
     
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  7. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Or maybe the clear.glass let's in too much light. Or perhaps the filtering of the green wavelength limits or enhances certain phytochemical reactions.
    If someone were putting their pale euro lager in green bottles I could definitely see the cla of gimmickry but when two of the better farmhouse/wild ale brewers in the US are putting some of their beers in green bottles when, through taste tests, they've decided it achieves the best results for their aim, that sounds like exactly this
    But I know, you're a grumpy fucker and like letting us all know that you know the best way in all things beer so I'll just leave it.
    I hope to see a bit more fantome on our shelves, green bottle and all, and will be happy to try anything they feel proud to bottle given their track record with me and my taste buds
     
  8. SudsDoctor

    SudsDoctor Pooh-Bah (1,739) Nov 23, 2008 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I've only had one Fantome beer (Printemps - a real lemon bomb). Haven't seen any of their stuff in ages, not that I've really looked for it.
     
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