Favorite Grisette

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by mrmattosgood, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. mrmattosgood

    mrmattosgood Initiate (56) Nov 6, 2010 New Hampshire
    Beer Trader

    Obviously there are some great ones, but kind of a niche enough style that it doesn't even warrant a list here. Clara is great; Grizzaca, too. Anyone else know of a great one?
     
  2. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Crusader (747) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I don't even know what a Grezzaca is!
     
  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

  4. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Zealot (582) Nov 3, 2014 Alabama
    Beer Trader

    clara is excellent as someone else said, I would say for me though, La Griseta is my favorite from Oxbow, but they are both excellent.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    My preferred beer that is labeled as being a Grisette is Sly Fox Grisette Summer Ale.

    Cheers!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Though not a reflection of you liking this beer, at 5.6% ABV, I'd be very hard pressed to call this a grisette. This is one of those for-instances that I abhor where marketing takes precedence over nomenclature.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    I attended Dave Janssen’s presentation at HomebrewCon 2016 on the topic of Historic Grisettes/Saisons.

    On chart 10 he appropriately stated: “Modern Belgian grisettes ≠ historic grisettes”.

    Even more appropriately he could have simply not have listed the adjective of “Belgian” in the above statement.

    Further considering that no style guideline (that I know of) explicitly defines what constitutes a beer style of Grisette it seems that in 2017 there is a fair bit of latitude here.

    Cheers!
     
    EvenMoreJesus likes this.
  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    He's a good dude. Love his blog. It's THE place to get great historical information on subjects like this that have the latitude that you mention.
     
  9. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Crusader (747) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    EvenMoreJesus likes this.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    I agree that there is lots of good information there but in speaking with Dave Jannsen he would be the first to instruct you that there is a lot of contradictory information published on the history of Grisette and Saison. While he is willing to take a crack at 'defining' what a Grisette or Saison might have been in the 1800's he would never advertise what he is doing is definitive here.
    The latitude that I am referencing is how contemporary Grisette beers are (or can be). Just like an IPA brewed in 2017 is different from an IPA brewed in 1900 or 1800. It would be unrealistic to expect contemporary beers to be the same as those old beers. I still consider Firestone Walker Union Jack to be an IPA even though it is notably different from a Hodgson's Pale Ale of circa 1800 or a C.H. Evans IPA of circa 1900.

    Cheers!
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Do you consider beers that are predominantly brewed with barley malt and minority wheat malt (e.g., 15%) to be a Wheat Ale?

    Cheers!
     
  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    I apologize if I inferred that he was the definitive source for anything. Simply wanted to state that he was doing an outstanding job at researching beers like grisette.

    I certainly agree here, but when one is trying to resurrect an extinct or almost extinct style of beer, one should have some type of historical reference or at least a basis for said resurrection, don't you think?
     
  13. rhino88888888

    rhino88888888 Initiate (165) Dec 12, 2013 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I'm in agreement that Clara and La Griseta are two of my favorites. Two others that I found enjoyable are Idle Hands' Child of the Sun and Les Grisettes from Green Bench Brewing.
     
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  14. Brent212

    Brent212 Initiate (92) Jan 13, 2014 California
    Beer Trader

    I think it's the only grisette I've had, but Transit of Venus with lemon and strawberry was magical.
     
  15. FFFjunkie

    FFFjunkie Devotee (430) Aug 26, 2014 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Bloody Butcher from Fonta Flora was fantastic to me....
     
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  16. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Crusader (747) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I guess so
     
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  17. HorseheadsHopHead

    HorseheadsHopHead Meyvn (1,018) Sep 15, 2014 New York

    A lot of styles like IPAs, most Belgian styles, some stouts, and even some lagers have a small portion of wheat in the malt bill. I think I read somewhere that wheat has to be at least 30% of the grain bill to be considered a "wheat ale".
     
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  18. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,191) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Funny I just replied in another thread to someone who says he cannot get a diversity of styles made locally, only IPA and stout, and I told him it was just the opposite here. Yard Owl, one of our locals, makes two delicious grisettes.
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    When it comes to the topic of Belgian Ales and ‘styles’ this can be very confusing on a holistic basis. Belgian brewers for centuries have preferred to be creative in their brewing and being ‘pigeon holed’ to a style guideline is of little to no interest to them.

    Let’s discuss Grisette beers of circa 1880. It would not surprise me at all if there were two beers with Grisette on their labels that were distinctly different.

    On chart 12 of Dave’s presentation which is entitled “Types of Grisettes” he details three different types:

    · Young/Ordinary

    · ‘De Saisons’

    · Superieure/Double (i.e., a stronger beer)

    On Chart 13 he provides a table with Grisette label details

    · Category 1: 0

    · Category 2: 1

    · Category 3: 2

    · Household: 2

    · Table: 4

    One of the questions that could be posed is: what do the various Category numbers mean? The only genuine answer is that delineate varying strengths (original gravities) but at the time of the presentation he did not exactly know the values (he could speculate). But needless to say there is quite a bit of variation from an OG perspective from these various Grisette labels.

    It seems to me that as regards the topic of Belgian Ales there is plenty of variation and when it comes to the specifics of historic Grisette beers this variation exists as well.

    Cheers!
     
    #19 JackHorzempa, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    If you ever determine the source of that information I would be interested in reading it.

    Cheers!
     
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  21. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,253) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Smuttynose Hayseed gets my vote.
     
  22. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,253) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Not that it matters in the US but does the reinheitsgebot say anything of the sort?
     
  23. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Well, that does not make sense to me. A beer that is 85% Barley Malt should be called a Barley Ale before being called a Wheat Ale.

    Cheers!
     
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  24. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    What I know of the Reinheitsgebot is that it defines that beer should be brewed solely with Barley Malt. There was a historical exemption made back in the 1500’s to permit the royalty (a Duke?) to brew wheat beers.

    A very quick web search provided:

    “All-Grain: Authentic Bavarian wheat beers must contain at least 50 percent malted wheat, with most between 50 percent and 70 percent.”

    http://allaboutbeer.com/article/wheat-beer/

    Cheers!


    Edit:

    “Under Reinheitsgebot, the German brewing purity law, wheat was prohibited as an ingredient in beer. The style survived through a special decree that allowed first the royal family of the Degenbergers, and later the Wittlesbachs, alone to brew it.”

    https://www.thespruce.com/wheat-beer-profile-353432
     
    #24 JackHorzempa, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  25. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Dave, below very cool video of the Yard Owl dudes:



    Yard Owl is indeed a craft brewery!!

    Cheers to Yard Owl!
     
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  26. rgordon

    rgordon Crusader (705) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    I do love the historical perspective and relative truths through time that you cite. What I do expect is that babies born a year after the next Sandy-like storm just may have names like Grisette or Saison.
     
  27. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Crusader (747) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Sorry, but I just don't think to much about things like that. If the brewery states there is wheat used in the mash it's a wheat beer to me. I guess it could be called a wheated ale but that's up to the brewer.
     
  28. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,191) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    James gave one of the best presentations to our home brew club of all the brewers who have come. They actually are the closest brewery to me of all our locals.
     
  29. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    My memory states that they are in the process of expanding? Is that correct? Will they move to a new location?

    Cheers!
     
  30. bubseymour

    bubseymour Poo-Bah (1,946) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    Manor Hill. Delicious. Only negative is it has a slight "chalkiness" to it. Otherwise its great.
     
  31. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,191) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Well, if so I haven't heard, they have only been in their "new" location in Gardiner under two years IIRC. I'll look into it. Everyone around here is moving to new digs or expanding lately hard to keep track lol

    Funny that they still own and run the Muddy Cup in New Paltz and make the best coffee in town too! Of course it might be better to have a grisette with that croissant, don't you agree?
     
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  32. zid

    zid Crusader (799) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Beer Trader

    I wish that American brewers wouldn't use the term, but I still buy anything labeled a Grisette. I'm my own worst enemy. Just had a little Grizzaca half an hour ago. I have no favorite.
     
  33. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Defender (650) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I don't have a favorite because I haven't had enough, but I love the style (or should I say, "I love rustic, low-alcohol saisons," since that's what the style has come to mean, it seems to me, for better or worse).

    Clara, all the Oxbow ones, Lady in Grey, and Smuttynose Hayseed (which I miss very much) are all stellar beers.
     
  34. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (1,828) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    I'll second that one - really enjoy it! I bought a few to cellar.
     
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  35. HorseheadsHopHead

    HorseheadsHopHead Meyvn (1,018) Sep 15, 2014 New York

    I wish I could recall, but I've read so many random beer articles over the years I have no idea where I read that. I don't know if I'm correct or not, so don't take me too seriously, but I do think it was somewhere around 30%.
     
  36. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,260) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Subscriber

    In the US, legally the Feds say:
    TTB BAM - "Malt Beverages" Chapter 4 - CLASS AND TYPE DESIGNATION
     
  37. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Indeed there is, but, even so, they are all low gravity beers.

    There is much variation, but just because there is variation does not mean that the "style" is completely open to interpretation. At least from a historical perspective.
     
  38. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    What!?!

    Did you read my post of:

    “On chart 12 of Dave’s presentation which is entitled “Types of Grisettes” he details three different types:

    · Young/Ordinary

    · ‘De Saisons’

    · Superieure/Double (i.e., a stronger beer)”

    The Grisette beers of the type Superieure/Double were not low gravity beers.

    Cheers!
     
  39. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Disciple (365) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Please read the link that I posted above, as it is Dave's blog post on the subject. There is little information on the beer that you mention, so "strong" is quite relative.
     
  40. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,975) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Below is what Dave wrote on his blog concerning Superieure/Double Grisette beers:

    “I think a double grisette has to be above 1.050, and probably not over 1.060, or at least not much over 1.060 given general beer strengths of the time (though this upper limit is purely a guess).”

    A Superieure/Double Grisette beer is not a low gravity beer.
     
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