Favorite styles from various countries

My point was just that Fuller's ESB is just another bitter in a sea of English bitters.They called it "Extra Special Bitter" in the same way that lots of brewers had a "Best Bitter" and Youngs had "Young's Special" , these in no way determined a style.

 

USA - American IPA
English - Russian Imperial Stout
Belgian - Strong Dark Ale
Germany - Schwarzbier

 

How does ESB differ from bitter? How does it differ from a bitter at 5-6% abv?

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/66/

 

US: Imp. Stout & IPA
Scotland: Wee Heavy
England: Barleywine

 

US - American IPA
Germany - German Pils
England - Russian Imperial Stout
Scotland - Wee Heavy
Belgium - Flanders Red

 

So an American IPA at 7.5% abv is a different style than an American IPA at 6.5%abv? How many styles would you have if you generalized your reasoning. Triple Karmeliet and Westmalle Tripel would fall under seperate styles, Ten FIDY and Old Rasputin - seperate styles.

 

Germany - Kellerbier
England - Ordinary Bitter
USA - American Red/Amber Ale
Belgium - Lambic (too hard for me to narrow it down any more)
Czech - Tmave Pivo

 

Germany-Doppelbock
England Russian Imperial Stout.
US IPA/Imperial IPA
Belgium Strong pale ale(Duvel, Delirium Tremens)
Poland- Baltic Porter

 

Oh boy, I will probably regret ‘jumping in’ here but….

Marquis, in all probability, will state that there is a ‘single’ beer style (I am not 100% he would use the word “style”) of Pale Ale. He would then likely state that different breweries and different beer drinkers would use varying words to label and verbally discuss Pale Ales. Some examples would be:

· Bitter Ale

· Extra Special Bitter (but in the UK this would be ‘reserved’ for the Fullers brand of Fullers ESB)

· IPA

· Pale Mild Ale

· Etc.

Cheers!

 

Yes, all these are variations of Pale Ale . The problem with beer styles is that you either keep it simple or you end up with a style for each slightly different beer.Look at the nonsensical number of Porters! To further confound the issue few beer styles have ever been defined and even than some people feel the right to ride roughshod over the definitions (Kolsch anyone ?)
The roots of bitter/pale ale lie simply from the fact that breweries called them Pale Ales but the customers called the very same brews Bitters.This to distinguish them from the lower hopped but identical looking Milds.
All beer styles occupy a spectrum.Session bitter and ESB belong to different parts of one ( why not throw in "Best Bitter" and "Premium Bitter" as well ?) but must surely be taken together.
The BJCP separates them into different classes in the belief that in a homebrewing competition a stronger beer has an advantage over a weaker one , fair enough if true (though in the UK some very low ABV beers have won the Champion Beer of Britain award) but the BJCP isn't an authority outside competition work.
This may be of interest;
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/all-five-british-beer-styles.html

 

Two things to address...
First, calling two similar things a different name because they are different enough to not be the same is PRECISELY WHY WE DON"T CALL THEM THE SAME THING! A fly and a bee and a wasp are all similar, but we have different names for them. If we called all pale ales simply pale ale some people would be pissed when they drank a zombie dust when they were expecting a 5 barrel pale ale. There has to be a way to differentiate these beers. period.
As for BJCP not holding any authority outside of competition, I am pretty sure they are tied in with cicerone in the US... While it might not be an authority from your perspective I feel others would disagree. I understand that they are not perfect, and I still take issue with some styles, but overall they have a handle on most things beer in the US.

 

Germany- Rauchbier
Belgium- Flanders Red
England- Porter
Czech Republic- Dark Lager (schwartzbier)
Scotland- Wee Heavy
USA- American IPA

 

Germany--Rauchbier
Poland--Baltic Porter
England--English Brown
Canada--Cream Ale
Belgium--Flanders Red
Scotland--Gruit
USA--Wheatwine

 

You are tending towards the "every different beer is a different style" . But to give different names to beers only slightly different is over elaboration.We do have a loose classification for beers here, under 4% ABV it's Session , then Premium and then Strong. But these aren't style differences, just descriptions within styles.Like talking about a short or tall person.
I'm not talking about a 5 barrel Pale Ale vs Zombie Dust but about beers of the same persuasion but of slightly different strengths.
As for cicerone , some time ago someone posted a page from the British/Irish coursebook for the Cicerone., it was agreed that it was pure drivel.

 

Bees and wasps are related but still completely seperate species. I doubt Zombie Dust and 5 Barrel Pale Ale are different enough to merit seperate genera.

 

5barrel pale ale is an english style pale that strikes a nice balance between earthy hops and a sweet malt background, zombie dust is a hop forward american pale ale that is extremely unbalanced with just enough malt to carry the catty tropical hop flavors. The blanket term pale ale would only cover the two beers as far as color is concerned. Again, a descriptor for the consumer should be more descriptive.

 

Pale Ale is a family , it derives from the two British brewing divisions of Ale and Porter.Just as the Porter family includes a whole array of stouts and porters,Pale Ale includes as much variation as one could want. A descriptor such as "Session","Strong" or "India" will often be applied and this helps but just as poodles and dobermans are all dogs despite their differences, 5 barrel and Zombie Dust are both Pale Ales.

 

Yes, there should be a description of the beer on the bottle/pumphead but I don't think precise nomenclature is necessary.

 

So you agree that different beers should be described as such. Great, now lets take that a step further and say wouldn't it be easier to describe a beer with a short hand name that describes what we can all agree are aspects of that beer?

Seems like you are making my argument for me. Dog-group-breed. Beer-style-substyle. While the American bulldog and English bulldog are both in the same group of dogs they are different enough to be their own breeds. We use the name American bulldog, but there is a loooong list of descriptors that a dog must meet to be described as an American bulldog. The same goes for beer. An American pale ale and an English pale ale may be similar in that they are both ales, and both utilize less modified malts to provide the base of the beer, the hopping rates and alpha acid levels are worlds apart, and a different name for the substyles sets them apart for the discerning beer drinker.
I understand your love for the history and tradition behind beer, but we need to look forward here and focus on what beer is and what it can be, not what it once was.