Feedback on NE style IPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by kingjohnh, Nov 20, 2015.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    I'm looking for some feedback for this northeast style IPA that I've brewed twice and missed the mark both times. I'm going for something similar to Julius (great mouthfeel, cloudy (but not soupy) and passionfruit, mango citrus hop profile). The last batch as outlined below was a bit thin, not very complex and had huge grapefruit iniitially (probably the Amarillo hops). For this batch I got a Conan yeast clone from Yeast Bay and am looking forward to brewing with it, as the other 2 batches were 1056. Given the recipe below and my description of it being thin and off as far as wanting passionfruit and mango and citrus hop notes, thoughts on how to adjust this recipe? I was thinking of mashing at 154F and adding one pound of rolled oats, but need help with the hops for sure. Thanks in advance for suggestions!

    John

    Here's my last attempt:

    Grains

    10# 2 row
    2# red wheat
    1# Crystal 60
    1# carapils
    1# table sugar with 5 min left in boil
    ¼ teaspoon of food grade lactic acid into boil

    Hops

    Columbus 1 oz pellets for 60 min
    Citra 1 oz pellets for 5 min
    Amarillo 1 oz pellets for 5 min
    Mosaic 1 oz pellets for 5 min

    Chill wort to 180F and then the following:

    Citra 2 oz pellets
    Amarillo 1 oz pellets
    Mosaic 1 oz pellets

    Dry hop for 5 days in keg with: Citra 2 oz pellets, Amarillo 1 oz, Mosaic 1 oz pellets for 5 min

    Yeast: Wyeast 1056 (American Ale)

    Water adjustments

    Mash with 18 qts of RO water at 167F to hold at 150F for 60 min. For the mash water: 3 grams CaCl2 and 5 grams Gysum (CaSO4)

    Sparge with 11 qts 212F to hold at 170F for 10 min. For sparge water: 1.5 grams CaCl2 and 2.5 grams Gypsum (CaSO4).
     
  2. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Citra is mango, pineapple and dank
    Amarillo is orange, lemon and floral
    Mosaic is lemon, melon, blueberry, dank and onion.

    If you want passion fruit, sub Galaxy for Mosaic.
     
    GormBrewhouse and SFACRKnight like this.
  3. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    Thanks. Any thoughts on why it was thin? Mashing at 154F will certainly help with that (I mashed at 150F before). Up the carapils, what about the rolled oats?
     
  4. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Well sir, 1# of carapils doesn't produce a beer I would call thin regardless of mash temp. It's possible we have a different idea of what a thin body is. Then again, you are trying to make a NE IPA which apparently has the body of a thick stout. I don't think I've had a proper NE IPA.

    Oats will plump up the body. So will the higher mash temp. Using a less attenuative yeast will help. 1056 tends to produce a thinner beer than many other yeasts. The beer will be sweeter if you do all of those.

    @psnydez86 has put a lot of effort into making beers in the NE IPA style and I think he can provide better assistance than me moving forward.
     
  5. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    citra and galaxy is what you seek, ditch the amarillo. Also, if you are worried about thin mouthfeel ditch the sugar.
    edit: London 3 with 5 oz of dryhops should get you plenty cloudy. Lastly, are you bottling? how fast are you going grain to glass?
     
    GetMeAnIPA likes this.
  6. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    Thanks for the additional thoughts. I'm dry hopping in the keg, so maybe 5 or so days after primary fermentation starts, the beer is in a keg and dry hopping. Last batch I was drinking within 10 days or so of brewing. Any thoughts on my water treatment?
     
  7. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    This cult style is suggested to be chloride forward. Cl/SO4 ratio is 2/1 or 3/1.

    And it's entirely possible you are drinking beer that is way too fresh. Good things should happen to beer with a reasonable amount of time. At least consider an extra week or two in your grain to glass process. If your beer doesn't taste fresh after one month from keg day, something is wrong.
     
  8. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    thanks. What would you do for brewing water additions? For my mash I did 3 grams CaCl2 and 5 grams Gysum (CaSO4) in 18 qts and 1.5 grams CaCl2 and 2.5 grams Gypsum (CaSO4) for sparge. Looks like you're suggesting I'd reverse and have 2/1 or more CaCl2 to CaSO4?

    I was just making the point that the beer was fresh when I drank it and it wasn't held up with bottling, etc. I didn't really start to drink it until the drop hop bag was removed and of course the sweet spot was about 3 weeks after the brew date.
     
  9. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    My best guess from what I've read is 150ppm Cl and 75ppm SO4 or 100ppm Cl and 50ppm SO4. Since I have not tried this balance, others that have will should contribute. As far as how many grams of X to add, you will have to run it through a water calculator or perhaps others can provide guidance. I don't use RO water.
     
  10. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    5 days seems a little short to transfer to keg
     
  11. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    It was an estimate. I looked at my notes when I got home and it was 8 days.
     
  12. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I may not be a huge help on the hops as I've never had Julius. But I can let you know what I've been doing for NE inspired hoppy ales.

    1). Use 1318 from wyeast. That's huge.
    2.) Load up the kettle with hops late. I do ALL hop additions at flameout. Plenty of bitterness comes through by not chilling immediately. (4-8 ounces usually)
    3.) 2:1 CaCl:gypsum. Use all distilled water and use bru n water spreadsheet. 200ppm chloride:100ppmsulfate works well.
    4.) 8-18% flaked grains (wheat/oats). I would go lower on this number if adding crystal malts and regular wheat. In fact I think flaked grains become less important when using 1318 yeast, that yeast leaves crazy mouthfeel on its own with hops.
    5.) minimum dry hop of 5 oz per 5 gallons.
    6.). Keg the beer, try and keep your grubby hands off it early. It will be tough but 1318 starts hitting its stride after being kegged for a couple weeks. Although it will certainly never clear up. Never.
     
    GetMeAnIPA likes this.
  13. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    thanks for all of the help! Brew day is tomorrow and looking forward to this one.
     
  14. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    All great advice above. I would only add a few more things into the mix. Get your first dose of dry hops in the fermentor just after day 3. You can then do your second dose in the keg. The jury seems to still be out on the affect of this process but I'm a firm believer that it works. Trillium and Treehouse are both rumored to do it. Well Trillium is no rumor. JC has told several people to try it. Also really load up on the dry hops. I do about 3 oz in each dose. I also do all my flavor hops at flameout and at 180 with 15 minute min hop stands at each stage. Good luck.
     
    GetMeAnIPA and psnydez86 like this.
  15. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    Thanks again for all of the guidance. Here's what I'm thinking of doing, though I noticed my mash pH will be 3.76:

    10# 2 row
    2# red wheat
    1.5# Crystal 60
    1# carapils
    1# table sugar with 5 min left in boil
    ¼ teaspoon of food grade lactic acid into boil

    Hops

    Columbus 1 oz pellets for 60 min

    Chill wort to 180F and then the following:

    Citra 2 oz pellets
    Galaxy 2 oz pellets

    Day 3 of fermentation:

    Citra 1.5 oz pellets
    Galaxy 1.5 oz pellets

    Dry hop in keg
    Citra 2 oz pellets
    Galaxy 2 oz pellets

    Yeast: 1318

    Water adjustments

    Mash with 18 qts of RO water at 171F to hold at 154F for 60 min. For the mash water: 6 grams CaCl2 and 3 grams Gysum (CaSO4)

    Sparge with 18 qts 200F to hold at 170F for 10 min. For sparge water: 5 grams CaCl2 and 2 grams Gypsum (CaSO4).
     
  16. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    I would take the advice mentioned earlier about reducing the sugar. You could do nothing or I usually add in about 4-6 oz. I like my IPA's finishing around 1.011 or 1.012. You might finish out under 1.010 and be a little thin with a 1lb. Also, you might want to consider just doing your 4 oz of kettle hops at flameout rather than 180. It all depends on the bitterness level you are shooting for. I think it looks like a great IPA.
     
    psnydez86 likes this.
  17. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    What is the point of using carapils and table sugar?
     
    MrOH likes this.
  18. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I have the same question. I understand a darker crystal plus sugar if you want the flavor of the darker crystal (even just C20) without the body, but I don't see the point of adding and taking away body at the same time. I'd just use extra base malt. Please enlighten me.
     
  19. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    One thing I just noticed is you said your mash pH was 3.76. If it truly was 3.76, you are likely to experience starch to sugar conversion problems.
     
  20. kingjohnh

    kingjohnh Maven (1,322) Nov 3, 2009 New Mexico
    Trader

    Exactly Brew Betty. I guess I'll omit the ¼ teaspoon of food grade lactic acid into boil? I've used that as I think it accentuates the hops. Without the lactic acid, my mash pH goes up to 5.5.

    As for why sugar and carapils, in my revised recipe I decided to omit the sugar. I've used both as I think in combo they give a dry sweetness at a 2:1 ratio of carapils to sugar. Plus, when I started to brew IPA's and followed Vinnie's Russian River recipe for PTE that included carapils and sugar and that always turned out great for me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.