Fermentation Advice: Headspace in Secondary

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by stb08007, Jun 17, 2014.

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  1. stb08007

    stb08007 Initiate (0) May 28, 2014 Connecticut

    First, apologies if I'm putting this in the wrong area of the forums.

    I'm one week into fermenting my first all-grain batch with a friend. We're shooting for an AIPA similar in style/hop character to Green Flash West Coast IPA and Sierra Nevada Torpedo. Our recipe calls for racking to a secondary at about 1 week, leaving it there for about 2 weeks, and dryhopping it there. While we have both a 6.5 gal. bucket and a 5 gal. glass carboy, we (I think) stupidly started fermenting in the carboy. :angry:

    I've heard that headspace can be an issue in the secondary, and I'm worried about oxidation if we rack the 5 gallons into a 6.5 gallon container.

    What is my best option in this situation, without buying another container? Should we try forgoing the secondary, or should we attempt secondary fermentation in a container that has 1.5 gallons of headspace (or something else that I've yet to consider)?

    Thank you in advance for any help/knowledge/wisdom you can impart upon a green but enthusiastic all-grain homebrewer!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    That's what I'd do.
     
  3. Robtobfest

    Robtobfest Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2009 Connecticut

    do not rack to a secondary that's what I would do I never use a secondary for ipa/pale ale
     
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  4. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Forgoing the secondary is your best bet. You are correct that oxidation would be a problem.

    Something to worry about in the short term is whether your beer has enough room for a vigorous fermentation in the carboy. You may want to attach a blow-off tube instead of the airlock so that it doesn't get clogged and explode everywhere.
     
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  5. stb08007

    stb08007 Initiate (0) May 28, 2014 Connecticut

    Okay, thank you all for that piece of advice! We'll stick with the glass carboy.

    So going forward, it's been in there 7 full days, and we planned to let it go in the secondary for 14 additional days. Is it alright then to dry hop it today, and leave it in the carboy for that amount of time? After that time, we plan to carbonate/age it in bottles for another 14 days.

    That actually already happened a few days ago (it was terrifying at first:grimacing:) and I've since built a blow-off device in place of the airlock, so it's currently set up that way.
     
  6. slusk

    slusk Initiate (0) Sep 28, 2009 Virginia

    No secondary for me either. I dry hop, lager all in primary. I think the notion of yeast autolysis may be somewhat of a foregone notion. The strong increase in brewing popularity has spawned an vast improvement in quality of ingredients, yeast especially. I think newer technology has produced superior products in comparison to days gone by that may require some periodic re-writing of traditional standards. :wink:
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It's okay, but IMO 14 days is overkill, with most of the oils being extracted from the hops in about 5-7 days.
     
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  8. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    I only secondary big high gravity beers. And wait 21 days on the bottles before you really get into them. Rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70F, but I can rarely make it!
     
  9. slusk

    slusk Initiate (0) Sep 28, 2009 Virginia

    Yes, I agree. according to a seminar from last years NHC conference, A lot of pro brewers are now saying 24-36 hours is where most of your hop character comes through. Conventional wisdom seems to point to 3-7 days.
     
  10. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    If you have the means to do so:

    Primary ferment until FG reached, dry hop in primary, after X days dry hop move carboy to cold condition (ie. chest freezer/kegerator) and let clear for 4-5 days before transferring to keg or bottling bucket.
     
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  11. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    A couple of things to consider:

    Dry hopping for 14 days is very aggressive . . . you see some top IPAs (Pliny) done this way and I've had success with the longer time. But 5-7 is conventional wisdom.

    The sooner you start dh'ing the sooner the hop aroma will fade. You have budgeted 2 weeks in the sec (or primary now) and then two weeks to bottle condition. Why not delay the dh'ing until you can complete its schedule to coincide to the bottling date? I look for every advantage to keep that aroma hanging around.

    As mentioned, if you have the ability to cold-crash before bottling you will be rewarded with clearer beer. I find this step is worth the wait even when hop aroma is involved. Pretty sure West Coast/Torpedo uses some type of cc'ing. As a card-carrying hop-head I'm not too happy to have hop debris in my pours.
     
  12. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    Bigger breweries go to pretty extreme measures to filter and clear their beer, ie. centrifuging. Home brew level I recommend DH 4-5 days at fermentation temp & then let the hops fall out over the course of an additional 4-5 days in cold condition. Total hops will sit in the beer 8-10 days but keep in mind the difference in reaction speed between warm & cold temps.
     
  13. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

  14. HeavyDandtheGirls

    HeavyDandtheGirls Pundit (785) Mar 7, 2014 Massachusetts

    If I am doing a Pale Ale any reason to move into a secondary? Pros/Cons? I planned on fermenting in plastic but went with glass on the advise of a friend, if I do a secondary I will need to buy a second glass carboy, it is worth it?
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Pros: Beer might clear slightly faster. There seems to be something about racking beer that encourages earlier flocculation.
    Cons: Increased oxidation, increased risk of infection.

    Personally, I only secondary when adding a special ingredient (like fruit) or when making a lager (in which case the lagering is a form of secondary).
     
  16. stb08007

    stb08007 Initiate (0) May 28, 2014 Connecticut

    This is great, I'm learning a lot here just from reading all of these replies. I realize this is a somewhat subjective thing, but if someone could sum it up for me then...

    1. approximately how long do you think I should continue to let it ferment (I'm assuming, dry hopping in the last 3-7 days it spends in the carboy)
    2. at what point during that time should I cold-crash it?
    3. and then how about long should I allow it to carbonate and age in the bottle?
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    1. I would add the dry hops as soon as the beer reaches final gravity (or close to it).
    2. If you are going to crash in the carboy, I would wait and do it after dry hopping is done. That way, the yeast can stay active and clean up after themselves. But you could also crash (after fermentation and cleanup), followed by dry hop. There's no rule.
    3. If you allow the yeast to clean up their byproducts while still in the carboy, you can start drinking as soon as it's carbonated. It may or may not improve with a little more age. But hop flavor and aroma will start to fade immediately. The rate that it fades will depend mostly on how well you keep your beer from getting exposed to oxygen before/during bottling, and also on the storage temperature.
     
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  18. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    OP, were you planning on saving the yeast cake for a future beer? That might change some of the advice a bit.
     
  19. stb08007

    stb08007 Initiate (0) May 28, 2014 Connecticut

    I wasn't planning on it/hadn't considered this at all this time around. Just trying to keep things simple.

    Just as an update, I'm planning on waiting until it stops bubbling (it's slowed to 30 seconds between bubbles now), then taking a hydrometer reading to see if we're close to FG (as per John Palmer's book). At that point, I'll dry hop for a few days, then cold-crash it to help with the clarity. Finally, I'll bottle after that.

    Two more questions:

    - Is there any reason not to cold-crash in my fridge (since the carboy is totally sealed from outside contaminants)?
    - Approximately how long would you wait on the bottles before drinking?

    Thanks again in advance!
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    No reason not to. Where else would you cold crash?

    For an IPA? Maybe a week or so past full carbonation. But the best answer is taste it and see.
     
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