Filtering Beer Trouble

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Aljossa, Jul 25, 2014.

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  1. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    Hi all,

    Despite filtering, my beer it's still hazy. Here is what am doing:

    I'm brewing Kolsch in Speidel-Braumeister 50 liters. After transferring to conical fermentor adding Safale S-33 yeast, leaving for 3-4 days, until FG is constant, then transfer either to 30 liters Euro keg or another conical fermentor inside my cold chamber, where it is kept at temps between 3-5 Celsius (37-41 Fahrenheit) for 3-4 weeks.

    Then taking that keg (beer) at that temp and push it through 10" filter to another (also refrigerated) keg. I've started with 10 micron filter, no results, changed to 5 microns, nothing. Changed to 3 microns, nothing. Changed to 1 micron and again, no result. Beer seems almost absolutely the same as before filtration.

    I'm not using irish moss, gelatin or anything similar, since I don't want to add anything in my beer besides water, yeast, hops and malt.

    So, what am doing wrong!?

    Any thoughts appreciated!

    TNX!
     
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Are you mitigating oxidation in anyway? I was under the impression that trying to filter beer on the homebrew scale was difficult to do without oxidating the crap out of it...and you've apparently filtered it 4 times now.
     
  3. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    I'm oxidizing my wort a lot before adding yeast and that's it. Being very careful to avoid any O2 contact with the beer. Putting CO2 whenever it's possible to prevent oxidation.
    And actually, I didn't filtered one and the same batch of beer again and again. It was one 30 liters keg which I've used for this filtering. When after few liters I saw that beer is not cleared, then I've changed filter and continued with filtration process, etc...
     
  4. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    I'd suspect chill haze and ask you if your beer is clear before you crash it, but considering you only let it ferment for 3-4 days prior to cooling it I suspect a good amount of yeast might still be in suspension. I'm curious as to why you only leave your beer on the yeast for 3-4 days if you then crash cool it for a month and filter it after that point? Wouldn't it make more sense (and produce a tastier beer) to let it stay on the yeast for 2-3 weeks, cold crash it for a few days, and then package it (filtering along the way if you insist)?

    NOTE: Chill haze forms the most when you crash the temperature severely and quickly. I did that to my Kolsch last year and it resulted in chill haze. The batch I made from the year prior (and this years batch) I slowly dropped (3F per day) down to crashing temperatures and they were both crystal clear in a few weeks. Also note that chill haze becomes permanent haze when you extend your cold conditioning time for a long duration. So I suspect it's a combination of you crash cooling it quickly (forming the chill haze) and then leaving it at crashed temperatures for a month before filtering (transforming it into permanent haze). Filtering is supposed to remove chill haze but I don't think it will remove permanent haze. Most commercial breweries that filter crash cool the beer quickly on purpose before filtering to create as much chill haze as possible. But they filter a couple of days after crash cooling (not a month like you are doing) to remove it.

    Also I haven't used the braumeister, but does it's design allow for good vorlaufing of the runnings to begin with?
     
    #4 koopa, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  5. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    P.S. I don't know for sure that 3-4 weeks of cold conditioning is long enough to turn chill haze into permanent haze. As for the Kolsch I made last year, I lagered it for 12 weeks after abruptly cold crashing it and that was long enough to do it.
     
  6. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    That is called oxygenating, not oxidizing. Just pointing it out to avoid confusion.
     
  7. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    May have an issue with pH as well that could cause some haze in the beer.

    My Kolsch has run crystal clear in under 7 weeks from lagering and in the keg.
     
  8. vrbulldog22

    vrbulldog22 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Ohio

    not sure what brew style you use, but vorlaufing can help with the situation early on, as well as using hop bags & adding irish moss with a few minutes left in the boil - these steps could help make it clearer without having to use a filter.
     
  9. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Is Irish Moss Reinheitsgebot approved?
     
  10. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    I have to say that I've followed German recipe I've got from a friend which claimed that primary fermentation is to happen at 15-22 degrees centigrade for up to 3 days, and then secondary at 3-5 degrees centigrade for 3-4 weeks. I've posted this question on several US and EU forums and almost everybody were saying just the same. Let it rest longer in primary. I've did another Kolsch batch just 2 days ago and it's now in fermentor. I think I'll follow your's and few other advices and will leave it for at least 10 days in fermentor before cold crushing, and then, after few days, I'll try to filter it, to see what the results would be.

    Regarding vorlaufing, I'm doing that manually with my Braumeister. It's easy and straight forward process there.
     
  11. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    12 weeks is tooooo long for me, since I intend to sell my beer to couple of local pubs. They are happy to wait for my product to be adequate before start selling it to them, but knowing local consumers, they would like to have clear instead of cloudy beer. That's why I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and what should I do to get that kind of product. Btw. tnx for your comments/suggestions, I do appreciate them a lot.
     
  12. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    Yes, you're right. Tnx for pointing out.
     
  13. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    And for how long you've kept it in primary fermentor? Have you used Irish Moss?
     
  14. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    I'm doing SOME vorlaufing. Hop bags were must for me from day one of brewing, Irish Moss, didn't use, but I'll use it in my next brew, that's for sure. Already bought a pkg of it.
     
  15. Aljossa

    Aljossa Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2014 Serbia

    Don't have a clue!
     
  16. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    I use Whirlfloc, which is the same thing in the boil. It was in the primary for 2.5 weeks to ferment, as I fermented it at the lowest temperature the yeast would take. Then I dropped it down to 36* and left it there.
     
  17. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    I also do recommend using whirfloc tablets in the last 10 minutes of the boil to coagulate proteins on the hot side of the process.

    While the bulk of fermentation (sugars being converted into alcohol) can be done in a few days, as exhibited by you reaching final gravity in that time, it is a good practice to leave the beer on the yeast for 1 - 2.5 weeks longer (depending on the beer strength) as the yeast will use this extra time to clean up some of the byproducts they naturally produce during fermentation. Two of the main ones the yeast will reduce include diacytel and acetaldehyde. While not every kolsch brewer finds it necessary, you also might want to consider doing a diacytel rest during the warm part of fermentation. Basically increase your fermentation temperature up to 20-21C for the last 3 days before you start to crash cool. I understand that ingredients are limited in Germany, but it's a shame you can't use a yeast that is more specifically a Kolsch yeast. S-33 is a decent substitute if you can not find a genuine kolsch yeast where you are located though.

    12 weeks is definitely a luxury for a homebrewer. Now that I know you are selling your beer commercially, I understand that you do not have this luxury. Not to worry though, lots of well established commercial Kolsch brewers do not lager their product for this long either! I do believe that if you extend the primary fermentation yeast contact time and then either slowly drop your temperature towards 4C (if you have that option) and let it cold condition for a few weeks you will have clear beer. If you are unable to slowly drop your temperature towards 4C, then you will probably have to filter the chill haze after a few days @ 4C. Please be kind enough to report your findings on the next batch and let us know if our advice helped!
     
    #17 koopa, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm sure you meant to say Diacetyl (not DMS, which isn't reduced by yeast).
     
  19. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    That I did! I've got to stop logging on here within the first 15 minutes of waking up in the morning :slight_smile:
     
  20. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    You know.. you should look into the whirlfloc/irish moss in the boil, and if you aren't adverse to it, you COULD use gelatin to drop any remaining particulate out of the beer in the kegs, keep them cold, and transfer the first bit of the keg off, and transfer clear beer to a serving keg if you want it really clear.
     
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