First all grain (BIAB)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by KeyWestGator, Feb 16, 2015.

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  1. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    Brewed my first all grain batch Saturday (fifth brew ever) and I have a few questions. Actually most of them don't even deal with the all grain aspect, they are just (relatively) newby brewer questions.

    First, I guess I had my strike water too hot at around 161. When I added the grist, it only came down to about 157-158. It took about 10 minutes of strong stirring to get it down to 154 (target was 153). I know this will give me a less fermentable wort, but how much so? Is my beer ruined!?! Just kidding, but what should I expect? I also went an extra 10 min on the mash at around 150 hoping to compensate, but I have no idea if this is correct or not.

    A real "is my beer ruined" question: I went to hook up the hose to my immersion chiller and noticed the rubber gasket was missing. Since I knew it was there before and could not find it on the ground, I figured it had to be in the boil. After draining into the fermenter, I was actually kind of relieved to see in the kettle. Relieved because it looked as it had before and had not disintegrated. Had little luck on google searching for this situation. So... is my beer ruined or possibly even dangerous to drink?

    Last, I tried whirlpooling for the first time to separate some trub and found it to be close to impossible with the chiller in there. Definitely ineffective. Does anybody do this, or do you need a plate or counterflow chiller to be able to do this effectively?

    Anyway, it's been bubbling away nicely for a day now. Thanks in advance for your responses.
     
  2. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    Realized you guys will probably want to know the grain bill.

    NB Irish Red 3 gallon kit
    5lbs 2 row
    .375 Belgian Cara 8
    .125 special roast
    .125 biscuit
    .125 chocolate
     
  3. pointyskull

    pointyskull Zealot (675) Mar 17, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    Unlikely that your beer is "dangerous to drink" - that's number one.
    In fact, odds are it will probably be drinkable if the rest of your process was generally sound.

    Your mash temp issue may impact the final taste of the brew, but keeping notes on what occurred will help you when it comes time for tasting.

    Oh - and as a fellow BIAB-er - welcome to the hobby (though it's your fifth batch) !
     
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  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    #1. It will be fine
    #2. It will be fine
    #3. I don't have great success with whirlpooling to isolate trub, but I try. I transfer wort from kettle to fermenter with a racking cane and siphon, I keep the racking cane 2 inches or so higher than the kettle bottom. If I am watching when racking, I will observe whether I have clear wort as the liquid level nears the level the cane is set to. If it is clear, I will push the cane down incrementally to siphon off the remain wort until I start to get trub.
     
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  5. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    I'm definitely considering BIAB for when I do my first all-grain brewing, although there are a few parts of the process that I'm not clear on. For example, what do you do if your efficiency is off? Say you were making a 3 gallon batch and you had 4 gallons of wort before boiling, but your gravity is off. Do you add malt extract to bring it up if too low? Do you add water if too high? Do you just forget about it and live with a beer that is more or less alcoholic than you initially planned for?
     
  6. Davl22

    Davl22 Maven (1,341) Sep 27, 2011 New Hampshire
    Trader

    Do what you just mentioned, add dry malt extract for more gravity, water for less.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “Do you add malt extract to bring it up if too low? Do you add water if too high? Do you just forget about it and live with a beer that is more or less alcoholic than you initially planned for?”

    In the past I have done all three depending on my mood and the given beer style.

    A few weeks ago I got an uncharacteristically bad efficiency which I think was due to a poor crush by my LHBS. For that beer I really wanted to meet my target OG so I boiled some DME and added it to the fermenter.

    Last year I got a lower than expected OG while brewing a Wit. I learned later that Castle Pilsner Malt will result in lower efficiency. That beer had an OG of 1.044 which was close enough to my target of 1.048 that I didn’t add any DME and I was happy with that decision.

    I have on occasion added some water if I was too high but you need to make sure you have sufficient headspace in your fermenter. I used a 7.9 gallon plastic bucket so I have lots of margin to add top off water.

    Cheers!
     
  8. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    Thanks for the replies. As for adding DME or water, I was thinking more of doing that at the start of the boil. If you take your gravity measurement pre-boil, then you can calculate your expecting post-boil gravity and theoretically adjust, assuming you have a good idea what your boil-off rate will be. I might end up with a bit more than 3 gallons of beer if my efficiency is somehow super high, but I ferment 3-gallon batches in a 5-gallon carboy, so I don't think that would be a huge deal (although I guess I would need to adjust my hop additions if I was off by a large amount). Food for thought!
     
  9. ventura78

    ventura78 Pundit (972) Nov 22, 2003 Massachusetts

    Your strike temp actually sounds a bit low by the calculator I use. When I shoot for 152 I strike at 164.
     
  10. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    you probably mash at 1.25 qt/# of grain. The OP was probably much thinner.
     
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  11. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't think I've ever seen any numbers on strike temperatures and fermentability. I've been blindly led to believe that 149 and 150 yields a more fermentable wort with less body than a 157 or 158. So, expect a little more body and a little higher FG. Maybe a few points.

    If you make a red that's too strong you end up with a delicious brown ale.
    If you make a red that's too weak you end up with a delicious tea to drink.
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Greg Doss presented data at the NHS a couple years ago, which you can access if you're an AHA member. Kai Troester published data on the web a few years ago, and AFAIK it's still out there in his wiki-like pages. Both found a mash temperature center sweet spot for fermentability that was North of 150.
     
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  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    ^ Typo, should say "NHC"
     
  14. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    Yea, I had about 4.75 gallons so that's about 3.3 qt/lb. The kit instructions said 161-163 and Brewcipher said 161 so that's what I went with. It's just something I have to get dialed in going forward. Same thing with boil off, which was a lot more than anticipated. Thanks for the responses so far. Seems like nobody is worried about the rubber.
     
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  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It sounds like you either have a mash tun (mash kettle) with very little thermal mass (which is a parameter on the BrewHouse parameters tab, BTW), or there could be a measurement error, e.g. an inaccurate thermometer/measurement. Were the grist and water thoroughly (completely) mixed before you started taking temp readings?
     
  16. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    On a brighter note this will open up a lot of great names for this beer:

    O Ring of Fire
    Head Gasket (IPA)

    You see where this is going. :slight_smile:
     
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  17. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    I read your whole user guide but must've glossed over that because it says mash tun. I get it now. You have .74 for a cooler, care to guess what I should use for a 10 gallon stainless pot? .25? .50? I'll need to fine tune but need a place to start. .25 calculates my strike at 159. I'll need to also bump my heat loss per hour.

    I was using two thermometers that I checked to make sure read the same the day before brewing. One built into the pot, the other digital (it's accurate but slow). With the help of my dad, we stirred and watched both temps until they both stabilized around 154. Care to opine on mashing for an extra 10 min at 150? Right idea, dumb idea, unnecessary, etc?
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Probably something very close to zero. Maybe zero for practical purposes. And yes, your heat loss per hour will be pretty large, if you're not insulating or direct heating somehow.

    I'm not clear on whether you stirred just long enough to get a homogeneous temperature throughout, or if you stirred a really long time, as heat dissipated into the air.

    I don't think it could have really hurt anything.
     
  19. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    I'll make it pretty low and have to trial and error it. I bungee corded a sleeping bag around the kettle and put another on top. Still had to put on some low heat about 40 min in to get it back to the 153 target.
    Out of curiosity and for potential future reference, do you "preheat" your cooler tun to get your .74 value, or do you mash in at ambient temp?

    The latter. Poured grain in while stirring and it stabilized at 157-158. Kept stirring (no sleeping bags yet and no lid obviously) for 10 min to get to 154 and figured that was close enough. Put the lid and bags on.

    Thanks for your response
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The value of 0.74 for the Coleman (or any Mash Tun Initial Heat Absorption Value) is not temperature dependent. But the calculations do assume that the "Ambient Grain and Tun Temp (degrees F)" on the Recipe tab is accurate. (I don't pre-heat anything, other than bringing the mash tun up form the basement the day before brewing so it reaches the same "ambient" temp as the grains.)
     
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