first all grain...fail.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by shredder83, Aug 19, 2014.

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  1. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    So last week I posted a recipe for my first all grain batch, which the general consensus was it was a solid recipe. I brewed tonight and missed my og by a whopping 0.011!!! By my calculations that's a big swing and a miss. So,what did I do wrong?

    8lbs belgian pils
    2lbs belgain wheat
    1lb german munich

    Mashed in with 3.5 gallons @ 152 degrees for 70 minutes

    batch sparged with 5.25 gallons @ 170 degrees for about 10 minutes before draining

    boiled for 60 minutes, ended up with 4.25 gallons of 1.044 wort (target was 1.056). The boil was fairly vigorous, the same as I've experienced before.

    So what the hell did I do wrong? I haven't missed a og by this much since I started brewing, and every batch has been a partial mash with at least 50% grain. I've never missed by more than .004 so far.

    Too much sparge water? Not enough grain to hit my og?

    Pretty disappointed in myself right now, I thought after all of the research and reading and calculating I've done with good references and good online calculators I wouldn't have missed so badly. I really pictured my first foray into all-grain to be more of a bang than a whimper. Help.

    Edit: I calculated my efficiency low@ 70%, single infusion mash. Still missed low.
     
    #1 shredder83, Aug 19, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  2. spencedog

    spencedog Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2006 California

    Next time try letting your sparge rest for 30 minutes before draining, that may be a solve the problem.

    Regarding your efficiency - it doesn't sound like you're taking into account your volume at 4.25 gallons into the calculation. I'm making the assumption your recipe was for 5 gallons. Without doing the math I'd guess you're well below 70% if you're coming in at 1.044 with 1.056 expected and 3/4 of a gallon short.
     
  3. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    Well, first of all don't beat yourself up. One of the hardest things about going AG is getting consistent efficiency so you can adjust recipes to your equipment and hit your intended OG. I think most people miss the OG the first time or two: in fact, I usually recommend that new all grainers keep a few pounds of DME on hand the first couple times in order to make adjustments.

    The grist you had would normally be enough to get a 1.056 OG, given normal efficiency, but for some reason your efficiency was fairly low. This could be due to a number of factors, including a poor crush, a failure to adequately stir or hydrate the grain, failure to adjust for pH (your grist is pretty light and could probably have used some acidulated malt to bring it into the proper range), some combination of the above, or ... hell, I dunno, but those three are the ones that spring to mind.
     
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  4. MarioM

    MarioM Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2009 California

    You most likely assumed you would get 75% efficiency, which is the default in most recipe programs. Now that you've done a test batch, next time assume 68 - 70% efficiency and you should be right on the money.
     
  5. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    I calculated for 70% efficiency this time. With 3/4 of a gallon short I was well under even that conservative calculation.
     
  6. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    I originally calculated my efficiency when constructing the recipe at 70% because I figured I would have some all grain growing pains and end up low on the efficiency.

    I was shooting for a 5 gallon batch and I started with over 6 gallons after transferring to my brew pot. I may or may not have underestimated my boil off but typically I haven't been short when boiling 6 gallons for a 5 gallon batch.

    I probably should have sparged longer than I did though.
     
  7. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    Thanks for the tips, I'll make notes and hopefully do better next brew.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It's not the end of the world. You now have a baseline to work from. Use it for predicting the efficiency of your next batch, and make incremental changes to your process to improve it.
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @shredder83 , did you use Castle Pilsner Malt?

    Cheers!
     
  10. ThomP

    ThomP Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Texas

    when calculating the water volume to put to boil did you take into account loss due to grain absorption and dead space? I generally try to make my mash and batch sparge water volumes equal, well really close anyway, I know about a gallon and a quarter is my absorption/dead space volume. When the mash is almost complete I bring said volume of water to boil add to mash tun, stir well and let settle and then sparge.

    Another question, how often did you stir the mash? that also will play a huge role in rinsing the sugars away, I double stir during the sparge. I also will add my sparge water and let sit for 20-30 minutes.
     
  11. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Reading your title I would have thought something disastrous happened.
    Wow, maybe I'm not taking this seriously enough.
     
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  12. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    After a bit of calculation my efficiency ended up at 55%, well below what it should've been. So obviously I messed up big. Probably not sparging long enough, plus maybe what someone else said, and I needed some acidulated malt to even out my ph from the light grist.
     
  13. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    try and try you will get it right, took me about 6 times to get dialed in on AG. I finally learned from watching others...
    like on my 50th batch I felt like I was finally getting the hang on things...but I am a perfectionist type.:grinning:
    Engineers we are a tad crazy....
     
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  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    More sparge water would have got you up to your planned 5 gallons, and would have increased your mash efficiency, but your OG would have been even lower, unless you boiled longer to get down to 4.25 gallons again. I would check the crush first. pH can affect efficiency, but usually not enough to cause as big a problem as you're seeing. Also, make sure you weren't leaving more wort behind in the mash tun than what was absorbed by the grains (i.e. no puddles/stuck lauter). One last thought... what was your mash temperature and how sure are you of it?
     
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  15. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    152F he posted
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Dang. Don't know how I missed that.

    OP: how did you measure mash temp? Calibrated thermometer? Or was that 152F the recipe/calculated temp?
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you brewed with Castle Pilsner Malt I have an explanation for you.

    Cheers!
     
    azorie likes this.
  18. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    I figured about half a gallon for dead space, went off what I read about grain absorption and figured about .13 gallons per pound of grain which put me at just about 1.25 gallons of absorption.

    I stirred the mash about every ten or fifteen minutes or so.
     
  19. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    My pils was malteurope I believe.
     
  20. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    I milled my grains at my lhbs where I always have, and never had a problem doing a partial mash. Essentially I was brewing 60% grain and 40% extract until this latest all grain batch. Maybe their 2 roller mill needs to be adjusted?

    I have an accurate thermometer, after adding my strike water and stirring I read it at 152°.
     
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