first batch...something is just "off."

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mrwilkes, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    I don't know if it just needs more time to condition, or what - but my first batch (Stone IPA clone) just tastes off. I can't nail down what the off flavor is...or what they are. It almost tastes burnt. It's also darker than I expected. Anyone had a similar situation?
     
  2. samtallica

    samtallica Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    Do you know any experienced home brewers who could taste it for you? Is there a club/homebrew store/brewery in your area that could give you some insight?
     
  3. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    Unfortunately, I don't know any others that are not first-timers like me. I could always take a bottle to a local brewery and have them taste...i'd just feel odd walking in there and saying "here...this is my homebrewed bad IPA...try it." However, for the love of beer and improvement, I might have to swallow my pride and do it.
     
  4. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Can you post your recipe? It will help a lot to see what may have gone wrong. Did you use LME and maybe let some burn to the bottom of the kettle?
     
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  5. samtallica

    samtallica Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    I'm sure they get it all the time. If you're friendly with the people there I think it'd be less awkward. If not, it may seem weird to have a stranger show up and ask them to taste his beer.
     
  6. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    Erik, that is exactly what I did. I poured it slowly and kept stirring, but it did burn. There were several large black flakes swimming around the wort after I added the LME. I was worried that it would affect the outcome but was told that it was "probably nothing." I guess this batch is just shot...
     
  7. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Well I would keep looking into it. I have burnt my share of LME as well and have never picked up on off flavors from it, although it seems entirely possible. Like I said post your recipe if you can and maybe it'll be of more help to see what's up.
     
  8. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    It came in a kit from Homebrewer's outpost, so i'm not sure of the exact ingredients. Here's what I know:

    for a 5 gallon brew, I made a 2.5 gallon Wort:

    Steeped specialty grains for about 20 minutes...until right before the water boiled.

    Turned off the gas and added the LME. There was no direct heat, but the pot was still hot.

    I stirred until I thought it was mixed, then turned the heat back on. Brought to a boil.

    Added 1.5 oz of Magnum hops and boiled for an hour.

    added the hops below:

    Hops:

    1.5 oz Magnum: 60 minutes
    1 oz Centennial: 15 minutes
    1 oz Centennial: 5 minutes
    1.5 oz Centennial: (Dry)


    I don't have a wort chiller, so it took a while to cool down before fermenting. I actually pitched a little too early (temp was about 78) but I got it down to below 70 quickly after that.

    I used White Labs WLP001 liquid yeast.

    Fermented for about 24 days (all in primary) at 68 degrees until I reached my target gravity.

    They have been conditioning in bottles for 12 days.
     
  9. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Go in, buy a beer and maybe some food (i.e. patronize their business), schmooze a little and ask to talk to a brewer. Explain your situation and offer him a bottle and your email. Leave a big tip. Most brewers will probably be happy to help. They may or may not open your bottle on the spot tho. Make sure to say "please don't spare my feelings, or you're doing me no favors" or something to that effect. Overly nice feedback doesn't give you the info you need.

    Or you could send a bottle to an experienced brewer on these forums. I'd love to try it, but I'm probably not the guy to give you the best feedback.

    Also, it sounds like you may have burned it a little. I scorched a little on a stove top once, but it didn't affect my final beer enough for me to notice.
     
  10. imtroy703

    imtroy703 Zealot (717) Nov 13, 2009 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Trader

    Yep, some more conditioning will do the trick. I had a similar experience with this taking longer than normal. Move a 6 pack to a warmer area of your house and wait a week. Then test with one not in the warmer area. The burned taste will either mitigate or be gone. It took mine about 2 months to taste just right.
     
  11. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    Let's be realistic here. It's your first batch. There's a lot of little things that could have gone wrong (temperature control is a likely culprit here). It's really not fair to compare your first homebrew to commercial beers because you just aren't at that skill level yet. Your brews will never taste 100% identical to any commercial beer simply because your brew house is different and that is especially true if your fermentation schedule is different from their (as it inevitably will be). If you used a kit there's a good chance the ingredients are not completely identical to those used by the brewery which will make a difference.

    It's a big difference whether the beer is "off" because it doesn't taste like the commercial beer you tried to clone or if it's "off" because there's a technical flaw in your process. More of a description about what is off might help.
     
  12. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    As others have said, the color difference is most likely from one of 2 things, either scorching the extract, or steeping the grains too long especially if there were roasted / dark grains in there. Either one of these could also cause off flavors too. What I do when steeping is to bring to water to a temp then let them steep, as opposed to putting them in cold water and then bringing up the temp. It would help I you described what is "off" about your beer, to try to narrow down what happened. Finally, there is a learning curve to brewing; you can't. (or shouldn't ) expect a world-class brew first time out.
     
  13. ipas-for-life

    ipas-for-life Savant (1,041) Feb 28, 2012 Virginia

    Boiling the LME for 60 minutes could have something to do with color of the beer. A lot of research i've done says that boiling LME for too long will darken it. Some people add it later in the boil to avoid this.
     
    Eriktheipaman likes this.
  14. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    Thanks guys. And yes - I don't expect it to taste just like the IPA I was going for. However, there is a noticeable off flavor here...not merely something that is different. The only way to describe it is a slight burnt taste...which is not good in an IPA. Its a taste that I haven't tasted before in an IPA so I can't really describe it as well as i'd like. The color doesn't bother me...it's juts a bit darker - almost like a Founders Centennial IPA color. The burnt taste is what's bothering me. I just don't know if it's still green...or if I messed up somewhere along the way. Tough to troubleshoot unless you actually taste it, though. Thanks again.
     
  15. clearbrew

    clearbrew Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2009 Louisiana

    The first thing I see is "Steeped specialty grains for about 20 minutes...until right before the water boiled."
    Did you leave your grains in the water and heat it until is was near boiling?
    The way to steep grains is:
    Raise water to desired temp (usually about 155ish) then hold temp and steep for 20-30 min. (may vary depending on recipe).
    Then remove the grains. Do NOT squeeze the bag. Allow the grains to drain via gravity. Squeezing will extract tannins.

    If you rung out the bag, or left it in the water while it was brought to a boil, you may have a very tannic (tanninic?) beer.
    Tannins will give the beer an "off" flavor. The best I can do to describe it would be similar to a very dark cup of black tea. Think dry and bitter. It could understandably be described as a burnt or charred flavor.

    I have scorched LME in the past as well, but the only problems it caused was a darker beer. I have never had flakes float in the wort.
     
  16. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I agree that tannins from poor steeping technique are a significantly possible culprit here.

    Also, I've had "flakes" of "burnt" stuff in my wort before when doing extracts on a stove top. The uneven heating is actually more likely to result in scorching than a good hot flame from a turkey fryer or propane burner. However, I never noticed any burnt flavors from the scorching. Perhaps the beer was a bit darker, no biggie there.

    I did start adding portions of the extracts later in the boil as well. Works fine. Only real problem is that if you're struggling to get a boil in the first place, you need to add them in small amounts or they'll kill your boil.
     
  17. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    This is probably the culprit right here. At a minimum the grains got too hot and will start to leach tannins out from the husks. The tannins will contribute a astringency to the beer. It's also possible some of the grains got a little scorched from being on the bottom of the kettle while the heat rose that high. That would also contribute to that burnt flavor.

    The color is likely due to darkening of extract during the boil. Affects the color but not the flavor.


    This is bad homebrewer myth and has been debunked by BIAB brewers several years ago. Just squeezed the bag myself on a BIAB stout I'm brewing.
     
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  18. mrwilkes

    mrwilkes Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2011 Tennessee

    I did all of the above. Burned the LME, steeped the grains the entire time, then squeezed out the remaining water into the boil.
     
  19. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't know if squeezing brings out bad flavors, but I'm inclined to take reverseapachemaster's word that it doesn't. However, steeping at near boiling temps certainly would bring out tannin-y flavors. That's your most likely culprit.

    Next time steepy more bettery. :rolling_eyes:
     
  20. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Crickey!
    Your beers is greener than green.

    Give'em some more time in the bottle and report back in a few weeks about how good they got.
     
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