First Homebrew Competition - Results and Improvements

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mjanderson, Aug 11, 2015.

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  1. mjanderson

    mjanderson Initiate (0) Oct 13, 2013 Virginia

    I recently submitted two entries into a local homebrew competition, one was submitted in the Double IPA category and the other in Amber Ale (Both extract recipes).

    Overall, feedback was generally good with some overarching themes: Fermentation was good, more hop presence required to meet categorical standards, beers are very malt forward.

    For the Double IPA I used the following recipe:

    Malt Extract:
    11 lb LME

    Steeping grains:
    2 lb Vienna malt
    0.5 lb crystal (10L)
    0.33 lb Carapils (6L)

    60 Minute Boil

    Hop Schedule
    0.5 oz Centennial Pellets every 15 minutes beginning at 60 mins and .33 oz Centennial pellets at flameout, totaling 2.33 oz of Centennial hops added during the boil (sorry don't have %alpha acid).

    Dry Hopped 0.66 oz Centennial pellets for 3 days prior to bottling.

    Yeast
    Safale US-05 11.5g packet added directly to the fermenter bucket. Pitched @ 70F.

    Fermentation
    4 weeks in the primary fermenter before bottle conditioning for an additional 2 months.

    OG and FG
    1.098 to 1.021

    Feedback I received was that this was a good beer overall, but was out of category and tasted more like an English Barleywine or English IPA. Beer has a strong sweet caramel and malt flavor. I enjoy the beer, but when I was developing the recipe I really wanted to target a hoppy American style IIPA. I am wondering if it is as simple as amplifying the hop additions to really nail the hoppy bitterness and aroma.

    My second entry was a red rye ale that I submitted in the Amber Ale category. Feedback for this beer was that it needs a bigger hop presence. I won't get into the details of this recipe, but it was made from a local homebrew supply store kit and the hop additions were as follows: 0.5 oz Northern Brewer (60 min), 0.5 oz Kent Golding (20), 0.5 oz. Kent Golding (5); all pellets, no dry hopping.

    Do you all have any tips for getting the most of of your hops? Thanks!
     
  2. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    I would suggest about 5 or 6 times as much hops for a 5 gallon dipa which will vary depending on where you add them. A big bittering charge, then about 6-10 ozs between 10 min and flameout. Then another 5-6 ozs minimum in the dry hop.
     
    GetMeAnIPA likes this.
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Vienna should be mashed. So unless your steep provided mash conditions, you added unfermentable starches to your beer.
     
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  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you add all of your malt extract at the beginning? How big of a boil did you do?

    You have a hard time getting the most out of your hops in a high gravity wort. So, if you did a partial boil and you used all of the LME in the beginning, you basically "suppressed" your hops.

    And like @VikeMan said, you need to mash Vienna vs. steep, that probably did not help things.

    And like @SenorHops said, you need more hops for a DIPA.
     
  5. mjanderson

    mjanderson Initiate (0) Oct 13, 2013 Virginia

    I generally bring roughly four gallons up to a boil on the stove then turn off the burner and add all of my LME. I bring the kettle back up to a boil and start the hop additions while separately boiling another 1.5 gallons and adding that to the brew kettle.

    Didn't know that about the Vienna malt...woops!
     
  6. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I used around 8oz of hops in my 4-gallon DIPA recipe and I still think it could have used more! Yours at only 3oz seems very under-hopped. It seems like it would end up more malty than anything from the looks of it.
     
  7. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    You're brewing an IIPA and measuring hops by ⅓ and ½ ounces? Ditch those fractions and think in terms of 3-5 ounces of flavor hops and 3-5 ounces of dh hops. Check out the APA IPA (single IPA) recipe for a proven brew. Better yet, check out Russian River's recipe for Pliny (some serious hops here). Also, take a look at the BJCP guidelines for IIPA. For a comp you really want to be close to these guidelines . . . being a squeak over on hop flavor/aroma will not hurt. A single hop IIPA can work, but consider multiple varieties if you want to impress the judges.

    Some red flags:
    4 weeks in the primary fermenter before bottle conditioning for an additional 2 months. What was your motive for 2 months of bottle carbing? This is a style you want to push to the front . . . I would have been drinking this brew at the six week mark.

    OG and FG
    1.098 to 1.021

    If you look up style guidelines for Eng. Baryleywine you'll see this is right in the middle . . . which was picked up by the judges. Part of your high FG may be a result of under-pitching and under-oxygenating your wort. Also it's common to substitute simple sugar for some of the fermentables to dry out the brew (let the hops sparkle).

    it was made from a local homebrew supply store kit
    This is how most of us started. No trying to slam local homebrew shops, but you have no idea of the hop's age or quality of storage.

    I am wondering if it is as simple as amplifying the hop additions to really nail the hoppy bitterness and aroma.
    This is an easy one: No. To nail it you must have a combination of proper water chemistry, know your hops are good, and perfect the technique of transferring those hop oils to your brew (which is often equipment-specific). For what it's worth, I'm still searching for the Perfect IPA . . .
     
  8. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    Not enough dry hops, bottle conditioned for too long as well imo
     
  9. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    So what everyone else just said should be considered. But, I think the easiest fix is add ~1/3 of your LME at the beginning of the boil and add the rest with about 10 minutes left. Google "late extract" or "extract late" and DME for more info. And, up your hops a lot.

    Definitely check out the recipes that @PortLargo linked and then reread what he wrote because there is a lot of "wisdom" there :slight_smile:
     
  10. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    IIPAs typically run from 8-12 oz of total hops. Lots of late hops should be seen here. Most IIPAs would drink incredibly well after 2 1/2 months. An IIPA isn't about getting the most out of your hops so much as it's about having too many hops and not knowing what to do with them. Big beers are somewhat wasteful on a homebrew scale.
     
  11. boothbeer

    boothbeer Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009 Illinois

    Sounds to me like you brewed an American Strong Ale. Bump up the hops a little and enter that bad boy in 22B and you may have a whole different response at competition.
     
  12. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,856) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't know that they are wasteful if they are your thing. Good, super hoppy commercial beer in these parts costs a pretty penny
     
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  13. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    I agree with @jlordi12 , DIPAs and such are more expensive to brew than blondes and browns for sure, but it still beats the hell out of buying them.
     
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  14. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The first thing I would do is see what malts are used to make your LME. LME is basically concentrated wort. I use pilsen LME or DME as a base for extract beers because I know it is 100% pilsner malt. Some light LME has C malts in it already, and then adding more Crystal probably didn't help your cause. I used to build my grist like an all grain recipe and use the pilsen as a base like 2 row would normally be. Utilizing BIAB techniques I would mash the specialty malts with some 2 row and then top off my volume. The only gold medal I have ever got was through this method.
    As for your hop schedule, you need more hops. Lots more.
     
  15. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    You asked about getting the most out of hops but I'm gonna share with you some information on getting the most out of your malt extract.



    HB42's Extract Brewing Tips...(Courtesy of Vikeman)

    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-do-i-start-homebrewing.62630/#post-855434

    First of all it's important to realize that good quality, fresh extract alone can brew fantastic beer as long as your recipe formulation and brewing technique are good. One of the best beers I've ever brewed, extract, all grain, or otherwise, was an abbey singel that was nothing but pilsen DME, a little table sugar, a touch of hallertauer, and wyeast 1214. I've brewed show stopping English bitters with nothing but Muntons extra light DME, a touch of crystal, some goldings, and wyeast 1968. And nothing is more popular than my simple extract hefe, which is nothing but 6 lbs of wheat DME, an oz of noble hops, and wyeast 3068 (it doesn't get any easier than that, and it's a great beer).

    if you want to brew great extract beers, the following guidelines are imperative:

    1) FULL WORT BOIL.

    I can't stress this enough. If you're doing concentrated boils, you're never going to produce flawless beers, no matter what else you do. If you're brewing 5 gallons of beer, you MUST start with at least 6-6.5 gallons of wort, and this is ESPECIALLY true for very pale colored or very hoppy beers. Late extract additions are helpful for those who do concentrated boils, but they're not a sub for a real FULL wort boil.

    2) Use only high quality, extra light, light, or pilsen extracts, and I much prefer dry extracts over liquid, as they tend to be fresher and lighter in color.

    Every extract beer that you brew should be based on either extra light DME, or pilsen DME. When an all grain brewer builds a recipe, they start with a pale base malt and work from there, even for the darkest beers, and a great extract brewer should do the same. Extra light extract is nothing but basic good quality 2-row, and a touch of carapils, while pilsen extract is 100% pilsner malt, and either of these are a fantastic slate on which to build any amazing beer. If you want to brew beer like an all grain brewer, then you need to think like an all grain brewer and build your recipes from the ground up.

    3) Use only FRESH extract!

    Don't buy extract kits that have been sitting on a store shelf for who knows how many millennia. This is especially true with liquid extract, which has a much shorter shelf life than dry and tends to darken and taste stale over time. This alone is a good reason to completely avoid liquid as far as I'm concerned. And try to find a retailer that moves their product and always has fresh inventory. For example a larger online homebrew supply may be better at providing fresh products than your stagnant local shop.

    4) Do NOT scorch your extract.

    This is yet another reason why I prefer DME over LME, as DME floats while LME sinks to the bottom of the kettle. If you decide to use LME however, remove the kettle from the burner and FULLY dissolve your extract before putting it back on the heat.

    5) Know which grains can be steeped and which can't.

    The only grains that can be steeped are crystal/caramel/cara malts, and roasted grains like chocolate malt, roasted barley, and black patent malt. EVERYTHING else really needs to be mashed. Doing things like trying to steep oatmeal or munich does nothing but load up your beer with unconverted starch, which is not doing your beer any favors. If you want to include other grains in your extract beers, then do a mini mash, NO exceptions.

    5) DO A FULL WORT BOIL! Partial boils kill beer. Seriously.

    6) Keep your yeast happy at all times.

    It's very important to pitch healthy yeast in adequate numbers, and use yeast that's appropriate for the style. Many extract kits come with a packet of generic "ale yeast" that is typically of low quality. You're never going to brew a fantastic English bitter with an old, stale packet of characterless "ale yeast". Get familiar with handling liquid yeast strains and making starters, and pay attention to proper pitching rates and proper fermentation temperatures, as both are extremely important for producing high quality beers devoid of off flavors.

    7) Never ever rush your beer.

    Great beer takes time, and most beers will benefit from spending some extra time in the fermenter and in the bottle. This means at least 2-3 weeks in primary before either bottling or moving to secondary, and if you're bottle conditioning give your beers at least 6-8 weeks in the bottle and you're sure to see a great improvement.

    And for shit sake, get yourself a bigger kettle! That, along with getting some decent ingredients, are the best things that you can do for your extract beers.

    And don't let anyone tell you that you can't brew great beer with extract, because that's BS. Some of the best beers that I've ever brewed were extract beers, no question.
    by: Homebrew42
     
  16. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    @scurvy311 I think that subbing out steeping for a minimash is often overlooked. I mean, if you can steep, you can mash.
     
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  17. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you only use one 11.5 g packet of US-05 for your 1.098 OG DIPA? What was the batch size? If this was a 5-gal batch I wouldn't feel safe pitching just one packet..

    FWIW, I'm planning a centennial IPA this weekend and am pitching at least 2 packets of US-05 into my 5-gal batch. I am anticipating an OG of around 1.068. Maybe the one packet didn't attenuate the beer completely, and left it a bit thicker and sweeter - like a barleywine. That's just my guess
     
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