First Saison. Advice?

I use a little sugar in my 3724 beers, but it's not absolutely necessary to get good attenuation....
http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/whats-the-lowest-mash-temp-youve-done.32865/#post-410802
Now, I don't know what HB42's OG was, and usually it's not particularly useful to know FG without knowing the OG, but I'd say just about any OG taken down to 1.000 is pretty good apparent attenuation.

 

T-58 is known for producing a spicy, peppery flavor that is good for Belgians/Wheats. I think any Saison yeast will be fine though so that makes sense.

I'd do 48 hours at 64-67 for primary fermentation and then ramp the temp up (let it go wherever it wants). This will produce more phenols and spices. Doing 64-67 the whole time will kind of miss the point of doing a "farmhouse" type ale.

 

What level of attenuation do you obtain with T-58 (OG value and FG value)? Do you use sugar as part of the ‘grain bill’?

Cheers!

 

Everything online is kind of vague, but most people on HBT say it is high. It is listed as "moderate." http://www.highgravitybrew.com/BeerYeastChart-attenuation.html

If you pitch a lot of it you should be fine. I'd definitely use sugar, probably 10-20% of the bill.

 

I misinterpreted your post. I thought you had experience in using T-58. A 'listing' of moderate attenuation is not consistent with a yeast strain for Saison beers.

Cheers!

 

Can you not get ahold of liquid yeast like WLP 565?

 

This is exactly what I have done with my first saison. But I found that 3711 stalled out for two weeks at about 1.030 (OG was 1.053). Average temp was at around 68. I fermwrapped the carboy and am keeping the temp up at 76. Once I did this I noticed a renewed krausen and airlock bubbling again. Hope I haven't ruined this one.

 

If you're going for dry yeast you may want to consider Belle Saison, it's a new-ish dry saison strain. T-58 will do ok and won't be entirely out of sync for a saison. You can ferment cool in the 60s for phenolic, spicy character or 70s for more fruit. I think T-58 is better placed in a witbier but the yeast character is not so different between Belgian beers that you must use style-specific strains.

Saisons do not all have to be dry, light colored, pilsner + table sugar, or solely yeast driven. Historically, there was tremendous variance. Even today there's quite a bit of variance in the style. A lighter crystal malt is not completely out of place as long as you know why it's there. You don't necessarily need the color addition but you don't throw the beer. My concern would be in using DME, which has some body to it, with crystal malt will give you too much body for your beer. If you want a touch of sweetness without the additional body munich malt would be a better way to go. It's a fairly common addition in saison. The spicing is ok if you want a saison with those characteristics.

 

Munich in a saison... sounds good. What about a petite saison smash with 12 lbs munich*, serebrianka hops** and 3711 fermented at 64? Sound good? Or drainpour ale??

*would give me about 6.2% ABV

**or would you go cascade instead?

 

Nothing wrong with an all munich ale but it wouldn't be very close to a saison. All munich beers are extremely malty.

 

Yeah, sounds about right. My munich/bravo smash (with lots of bravo) was almost IPA hoppy, but still had a pronounced malt character. (Great smash combo, BTW).

So yeah, I'll have to try it. Might be a tad on the funky side, but I bet it will still be good.

 

When one is making a Saison (or any beer for that matter) you need to ask yourself, do you want to make a beer close to style (I.e trying to create a beer that tastes like a commercial example) or do you want to build upon the style.

I personally wouldn't like a Saison with much Munich malt in it ( I put about 1 lb in mine for color and little complexity) as I feel too much Munich and you're going to get a beer that tastes like a Vienna Lager/ Bock/ Oktoberfest with a Belgian yeast character. Interesting, but not what I think of when I think of Saison.

Some tips I've learned when going for that true dry - fruity Saison quality is to pitch a nice healthy starter, use a low mash temperature (145*-148*F), 1/2 lb- 1 lb table sugar, and ignore your standard ideas of fermentation temperatures. Start at a fairly normal temperature (68-70* F) for the first 2-3 days of growth and bump up 3-4 degrees every day after until you hit 85! You've got to get Saison yeast hot so it attenuates fully and gives that dry character to the beer but you don't want to give it heat until its had those first few days at normal temperatures to create a nice balanced ester profile. Starting off hot will always lead to solventy alcohol flavors and unwanted phenolics (band-aid flavor) that distract from the delicate interplay of yeast character and subtle malt flavors.

 

The Belle Saison is a pretty newish dry saison yeast... Most have commented it doesn't toss the wanted saison notes and phenolic flavors like some of the old tested and loved strains.

The head on your beer should have been decent with the cara pils in the extract you used, so I can't comment on that. I know the yeast assists with a nice huge rocky white head on a saison.

Caravienne will give a candy like, almost strawberry color to a beer, so yeah, it would impart a fair bit of color.

Also when did you add your liquid extract? Late? If you did so early, that can contribute to the darker color as well. When I brewed extract my beers were noticeably darker than I wanted due to the extract in most cases.

 

What temp did you ferment at? I have my Belle Saison up to 85 degree right now hoping that will bring out more Saison flavors.

 

Sorry to thread-jack, but what temp(s) did you ferment at? I'm brewing on Sunday with 3711 and I want this beer to be bone dry. It's based off what you recommend but a little smaller.

3.3 lb Briess Pilsn LME
2 lb Briess Wheat DME
1 lb Table Sugar

Brewtoad projects finishing at 1.009, but I'd really like to get it to 1.002 or so if possible.

 

Wyeast recommends: “Temperature Range: 65-77F 18-25C”

I personally fermented in the low 70’s (i.e., 72°F).

I can almost guarantee that your FG will be well below 1.009; brewing software does not estimate final gravities well (particularly with high attenuation yeast like 3711).

Good luck with your Saison!

Cheers!

 

Brewed up a Saison with a similar bill.
3 pound gold lme
3 pound Pilsen dme
1 pound sugar

Let temperatures get as high a 86 degree with Belle Saison. It is down too 1.004 and is very spicy so far. I am going to let the temp drop back down to 70 before I dry hop it with cascade and centennial. I think the fruit floral notes of the dry hop will play well with the spiciness of the yeast.

 

Isn't any beer you brew a baseline for subsequent batches?