I'm making a Saison this weekend that I decided would be a good test subject for my first sour mash. The goal being to just get a bit of a pinch this time without going overboard on the sour while learning the process. The plan is to do a mini-mash with 10-20% of the grain bill, pitch some Wyeast lacto, cover with sanitized saran-wrap, give em a few days (2-3?), then strain and add straight to the boil on brewday. Does that sound reasonable? Any tips, advice, etc? Thanks guys!
wyeast lacto is weak. it'll take a while to get what you want. Do you own with some uncrushed grain. I'd honestly mash the whole grain bill, drain the tun into your fermenter, pitch some grain at 110-120 degrees. Let it ride until you think it's sour enough, boil it, add your hops, and pitch your yeast. I'd sparge, or do a no sparge and collect what you need PRE BOIL volume wise. Sour it all. Or do a smaller batch, sour it, and then mash another half of it on brew day like normal, and blend..sounds like more work, IMO.
I will share my one experience that produced decent results: It was a 2.5 gallon batch. I mashed for an hour in a 4 gallon pot, typical 1.25qt/lb ratio. Waited for the mash to get down to 110 deg F then I added a handful of uncrushed grain (lactic pitch). I covered the mash with sanitized aluminum foil and poured some seltzer water over the top. Put the lid on and tossed the pot into my oven. I kept the light on to try and add as much heat internally without having to turn the oven on. I monitored the temp with a meat thermometer that can be read outside the oven. A couple times a day I would turn the oven on to its lowest setting (preheat 170) until I saw the temp rise to 120. I then shut it off and let it be. I did this over the course of a weekend. It produced a clean tartness. I sparged and continued the batch per usual. Temps and co2 purging is key.
Just had the idea of using a slow cooker to keep a small sour mash at temperature, either on warm or in conjunction with some sort of temperature control. Could also probably BIAB in there to eliminate transfer and cut down on oxidization. Thoughts?
I've sour mashed twice, both times with great beers as a result. It's been a while, but from memory: Clean & sanitize mash tun. Mash in whole grain bill at ~150 F, let sit 72 hrs, do not open mash tun just keep covered with lid. Take mash reading, did strike temp calculation found in Palmer's "How to Brew" in relation to what temp and how much new strike water needed to get the mash back up to ~160 F. Mashout, lauter well. Pitch 2L starter of yeast (I used German ale yeast) to unboiled sour wort. Let it ferment, lacto will continue to exert character for month or more. The longer mine sat the funkier and more tart they got. I remember drinking both of them at around 2-3 months. That was for two Berliners, if your doing a Saison, I think the tartness should be minor and should take a backseat to the fantastic Saison yeast character, in which case you may want to boil your wort or do a 25%/75% blend of straight Saison with a sour berliner styled beer. Cheers!
I would do a full sour mash (as opposed to a mini mash) and skip the Wyeast lacto. Lacto is free. Do your best to keep your temps in the 110 range for 2-3 days and keep oxygen out as best as possible. It's slightly cheating, but I'd pick up some cheap insurance with a bottle of lactic acid in case you want to increase the sourness at packaging.
After reading this thread and a few blogs, I've settled on trying for a 4 gallon batch -full 60 minute mash, run off into a sanitized corny at around 120F, throw in some uncrushed 2-row, purge with CO2, keep it at ambient temp (mid 60s) and taste it daily until it's ready to go. Siphon back to the kettle, short boil, few hops, ferment with 1056 like normal. That previous Berliner thread came to the conclusion that lower temps for the lacto lengthens the process and I like the idea of doing it in a corny so purging is easy.
Reporting back. I mashed 30% of my Saison in an old crock-pot w/ a broken lid, let it cool to 120F, pitched Wyeast lacto (because OCD), covered in plastic wrap (burped all the air bubbles out, used the metal ring from the old lid to seal the edge), and let it sit ~48hrs: According to my infrared thermometer the mash stayed right around 115-117F the whole time, though that reading is likely off by a little since it wasn't intended for this, per se. The mash smelled like warm vomit, but before siphoning the wort into the boil I tasted it and it was delicious! Tart, acidic and surprisingly clean. The sour won't be too present in the final product, but that was kind of what I was aiming for with this saison. Next time I will likely let it go a bit longer to see if I can get more punch out of this same batch size. In conclusion: For small batch or partial lacto beers, crock-pots make great poor man's temperature regulators!
wow...never thought of the crock pot. Glad you had a good experience. A slight vomit smell may dissipate through boiling but anything that really smells vile should be tossed.
Yep—it smelled like beer by the time it made it to the carboy! I sterilized the crock-pot, mashed in it, then used it as the incubator, so the risk of contamination or adding oxygen was really low. Next time I will know better than to do it in the kitchen though.... not the most appetizing smell.
The warm vomit smell isn't ideal, but atleast it didn't smell like a couple day old hot shitty diaper that fell out of a diaper genie. Good thinking with the crockpot. for small batch, or partial sour mash, that would be ideal.
