First time lacto

What are you using as a lacto source? If you have no hops in the wort you can use Goodbelly at one carton of Mango flavored (least flavor impact to the beer) and it will sour at room temp, no heat needed, no CO2 needed, and it will do it in only a couple days.

 

Why would Goodbelly forego the need for temperature control or CO2 purging? I mean, I understand that it's perfectly possible that as long as no undesired bugs get into your wort that you can sour at room temperature, but there isn't anything inherent to Goodbelly that would render warmer temps and a layer of CO2 unneccesary, right? If they can be achieved, these are still good practices to reduce the likelihood of an undesired bacteria, unless there's something about Goodbelly that I'm not aware of.

 

Goodbelly has a Lacto strain that works at room temps quickly so temperature control isn't required. It also contains only Lacto, so a CO2 barrier isn't needed. Lacto doesn't require oxygen to grow, and it isn't inhibited by oxygen either, its view on O2 is, meh, who cares. The need for CO2 and higher temps is with unpure cultures or temp sensitive strains. Most people have advocated for CO2 because they are not killing all the bacteria in the wort (rest above 180*F or short boil) before dropping the temps and then souring with grains. If that is the case, then yes, purge with CO2 to ensure aerobic bacteria found on grains don't have the needed O2 to grow.

TLR Lacto plantarum doesn't need high temps, long time-frames, or an O2 free environment. But, it hates hops!

 

You can do as jbakajust suggests with the goodbelly (that is what I plan on doing for my BW here soon). You can also pour in a half pound of uncrushed pilsner malt to inoculate when the temp reaches 110F. I've done this a few times with good results, and you don't have to heat it at all. Mid 70s is fine. Just let it get sour for 5-7 days. Taste it on day 5, but you'll see the lacto doing it's thing in there, as well as some airlock activity.

I finally broke down and got one of these for pretty cheap. I recommend it and it'll keep the temps up in the high 80s, even low 90s depending on where you are. Works great for saisons and brett beers that do well at higher fermentation temps.

 

I guess my understanding was that the temperature control and CO2 wasn't only to protect against unwanted bugs already in the wort, but also to inhibit the thriving of any bugs that might enter the wort during the souring phase. Granted the chances of this happening are less likely if the souring vessel is airtight, but there's still exposure risks while opening the vessel for testing Ph and whatnot.

 

As long as you are not pitching a Lacto source (ie, grains) that has other bacteria then pure Lacto, then yes. Goodbelly is pure Lacto so no other bugs should be in the wort.

 

Yes, keep temps up. And that vial is more than likely contaminated with a Sacc strain too.

 

The temp range during your souring is completely dependent on the lacto strain your using, brevis and delbrueckii thrive at higher temps. Plantarum works really well at room temp.

The lack of oxygen pre-boil is to protect from cultures already in or on the grain. Leucine is in the grain already and is responsible for production of isovaleric acid (cheesy off flavor) and bacillus subtilis is on the grain and responsible, among others, for production of butyric acid (vomit aroma). You can avoid these all together by souring after you mash out and raise the temp to 180ish for 10 minutes, chill to 100 and knock out into your fermenter (no boil berliner). This does mean that you'll have bugs in your fermenter, but it's cheaper to buy a new carboy specific to your sour projects than to dump batches of Parmesan and baby vomit wort. Those off flavors will not age out.

I've gotten the best results by making a 500ml starter with 2 or 3 probiotic capsules (Ultimate Flora is what I use specifically) then pitching that into my no boil berliner wort and letting it sour for 30-48 hours and pitching a big healthy culture of brett C. Good belly is...well, good, but it's only one lacto strain. The probiotic capsules have like 10 different strains in there and I've found them to be less one dimensional.

 

Here's my keg souring setup:
Lacto Lounge

 

Yeah, just dry hop. The pH will drop fast enough that you don't need the hops to inhibit bacterial growth.

 

So, I do the lacto thing in a weird/backwards way, but it always has given me good results and I have yet to have any problems. Plus it capitalizes on reusing ingredients so that I feel less wasteful. I just made a Gose using the following steps.

I start by making a saison (typically, you could also do a hefe or whatever) with acid malt in the bill, but using a bit more grain than normal shooting for a relatively high ABV beer (at least 9%). I get all of my boil volume and target pre-boil gravity from first runnings. Then, since the "spent" grain is already warm and acid malt is already part of the party, I just shut the lid on the cooler and let the grain (and whatever liquid leftover, usually about a half gallon or so) sit in a warmish place for about a week or so.

When the spent grain has the right level of sour smell I like I boil about 2.5 or 3 gallons of water and dump the boiling water directly into my sour mash. I give it a stir and let it soak for about 30 minutes then I boil the resulting wort for about 20 minutes with a single hop addition at 15 minutes. Typically something citrusy, but whatever really. Then I add salt or spices at flameout. Cool and transfer to fermentation vessel of your choosing and pitch yeast. I usually only let these ferment for a week or two tops then straight to bottle.

The reason I like this method is that I get two beers out of it. My 8.5% ABV Saison is in the keg right now, and using this method I also had about 2.5 gallons of Gose. I used Jarrylo hops and some Belle Saison dry yeast in this one. It's really tart, citrus sour, and really refreshing with just a hint of saltiness.

I'll probably get blasted for the method I use, but it works for me.