Fixing diacetyl

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Prep8611, Aug 29, 2017.

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  1. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Hi I have a pilsner made with 34/70 that I realized after that was poorly pitched and have lots of diacetyl. It tastes strongly of butterscotch to the point where it is gonna be a dumper. Anything I can do to fix this like warming it up or leaving it to lager for a month in my kegerator?

    Please help @VikeMan @TheBeerery @EvenMoreJesus
     
  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Make a big active starter with a neutral ale yeast and pitch it once you bring the beer up to around 70F. That's your best bet. Active yeast will metabolize diacetyl. If you can, purge the headspace when pitching the starter to avoid any oxidation that might happen so that you can lager the beer afterwards.
     
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  3. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Ok would something like Chico be okay or do I risk a lot more attenuation.
     
  4. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Should be just fine. If you get additional fermentation and a little more attenuation, I think that'll be the least of your worries.
     
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  5. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    FWIW, make sure to a diacetyl rest BEFORE your fermentation is completely finished (usually 2/3rds the way through is suggested) and this won't happen in the future.
     
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  6. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    I don't believe in diacetyl rests, but I do believe in pitching plenty of active and healthy yeast. Pitching new active yeast should help here. ( though I have never tried it or had to do it, in my over 1200 batches).
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have never brewed with Fermentis 34/70 but I have brewed many, many times with Wyeast 2124 which is reportedly the Weihenstephan 34/70 strain. I have never conducted a diacetyl rest and I have never perceived diacetyl in any of the resulting beers (and I am very sensitive to diacetyl). My 'take away' here is that if you conduct a healthy fermentation with this yeast strain a diacetyl rest is not needed.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Jim (@premierpro), have you ever experienced diacetyl in your beers where you utilized 34/70?
     
  8. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I fermented at 52 for two weeks and brought it to 68 for 5 days for a "rest" I only used 1 packet and read I should have used 2-3. My lag time was so long as it was my first time using this yeast. It took 3 days before I saw active signs of fermentation. First lager and I definitely fudged it.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Is this beer still in primary? If so, I'd warm it up to D-Rest temps for a few more days and see.

    If that doesn't do the trick, then pitch more yeast as others mentioned.
     
  10. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    It's kegged. Can I just pitch the starter in the keg and purge and seal the keg with co2?
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't seal it after pitching an active starter.
     
  12. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Don't I have to worry about oxygen and foreign bacteria/yeast getting in then? It's not airtight.
     
  13. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Leave it warm for 3 weeks. Diacetyl will magically disappear.

    I have diacetyl in a W-3470 lager right now. I ain't worried at all, not at all. It's pretty slight anyway. And it's still in primary, which is nice.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would "airlock" it in some way that excess pressure can escape, unless you're sure that the amount of fermentables you are adding won't make too much.
     
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  15. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    If mine was in primary I would do that but I prolly don't have enough yeast to clean up all this diacetyl in the keg.
     
  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I'm probably gonna make a single 1.040 1 liter starter and use Chico.
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    That will certainly be safe from a keg pressure standpoint. I don't know if the yeast will like it (the pressure) from a diacetyl eating standpoint, but it should make for an interesting experiment. Maybe @TheBeerery has some insight there...I think he spunds before fermentation is complete.
     
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  18. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I have rescued at least three beers from diacetyl as follows:

    Warm the beer. Make a small starter of neutral dry yeast. I have done this with notty, us 05, and even lager yeast 34/70. It really shouldn't matter. You probably could use t59 and it wouldn't matter. When the starter shows signs of active fermentation pitch into your keg or secondary. Forget about the beer for 2-4 weeks. Drink.
     
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  19. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    What ever you do, don't just dump the keg. I had a horrible diacetyl problem in a batch of Czech Pils, but I did not need the keg so it just sat in a hot garage all summer long (probably 5-6 months). Before I dumped it, I gave it a try and the diacetyl was gone, ended up finishing the keg, not the world's best beer, but not worth dumping either.

    TL;DR don't dump the keg unless you need it for another beer. Just let it ride at room temperature and see what happens. Or pitch more yeast :slight_smile:
     
  20. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Do I seal the keg with co2 or just let it be closed and not sealed.
     
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