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Flaked Rice in a Blonde ale

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ghostinthemachine, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I am brewing a quick hoppy blonde ale for a boating trip in a couple of weeks. I was thinking of adding flaked rice to it to make it crushable. Have any of you tried this?

    Recipe:
    80% 2 row
    16% flaked rice
    4% caramel 10
    1.046 fermented with saf 05. 149 degree mash temp.
    I think I will bitter it to 20 ibus and have some late addition hops.

    Thoughts? It's going to be in alabama so it's for a bud light type of crowd. Thoughts?
     
  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    I've used rice a bunch of times in the past. Even some more expensive varietals. If you're wanting to used flaked rice to lighten the body and up the ABV, just use dextrose. Same outcome without the extra work, IMO.
     
  3. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I realized after writing this that i am basically brewing a cream ale.
     
  4. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Defender (614) May 29, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Thought Cream Ale was corn?
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,059) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    For your consideration below is an extract from American Handy-Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades by Robert Wahl & Max Henius, 1902:

    “Cream or Present Use Ale

    Material – Seventy per cent of malt, 30 per cents of unmalted cereals,; or 75 per cent of malt, and 25 per cent of sugar added in the kettle.”

    The type of unmalted cereal (i.e., corn, rice) is not explicitly specified. Also, a Cream Ale could be brewed without using unmalted cereals but with sugar instead.



    A more contemporary source of information is the 2015 BJCP style guidelines which does specifically mention corn:

    “History: A sparkling or present-use ale that existed in the1800s and survived prohibition. An ale version of the American lager style. Produced by ale brewers to compete with lager brewers in Canada and the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Midwest states. Originally known as sparkling or present use ales, lager strains were (and sometimes still are) used by some brewers, but were not historically mixed with ale strains. Many examples are kräusened to achieve carbonation. Cold conditioning isn’t traditional, although modern brewers sometimes use it.

    Characteristic Ingredients: American ingredients most commonly used. A grain bill of six-row malt, or a combination of six-row and North American two-row, is common. Adjuncts can include up to 20% maize in the mash, and up to 20% glucose or other sugars in the boil. Any variety of hops can be used for bittering and finishing.”

    I took note that in the History discussion there is mention of .”An ale version of the American lager style”. Well, rice was also used to produce American Lagers in the 1800’s (think Budweiser which was first brewed in 1876). It would not surprise me if some of the American Ale breweries preferred to use rice as their adjunct. Maybe @jesskidden has some examples he could cite for this?

    Cheers!
     
  6. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Defender (614) May 29, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Good deal, I was always under the impression Cream ale = corn. Thanks for the info!
     
  7. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I checked my freezer and have my hop choices figured out. I am going to bitter with warrior. I have 8 oz of loral, 2 ounce of vic secret, and 2 ounce of kohatu hops. I am going to bitter to about 15 ibus at 60 minutes and then I think i will throw in the 2 oz of kohatu from 10 minutes on. Thoughts?
     
  8. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (715) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Flaked rice would make a nice Blonde/Cream Ale I think. I used 1# of flaked rice and corn in my last cream ale that's long gone. For any more robust style I would suggest balancing the adjuncts with some continental Munich.
     
  9. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,287) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Subscriber

    Some of the many NY and New England lighter ales*, post-Repeal, used other adjuncts, or none at all. Hampden Mild Ale used rice and (corn) sugar and was one of the few examples I can think of that where a brewery "admitted" to sugar usage in promotional material.
    [​IMG]
    In another ad, noting rice's superiority over corn, they claimed:
    Croft Cream Ale was all-malt, although I've always wondered if they, too, didn't add sugar since they qualified the "all malt" with "...no other cereal grains used."

    In NY, not positive that Utica Club Cream Ale (my preferred NYS cream ale over Genesee's) used rice but some brewery info in the '70s suggested that U.C. Beer and Ale contained the same ingredients, - in different quantities - and the lager was brewed with both corn grits and rice. Once Matt Premium went to an adjunct recipe, it also (probably?) used rice.

    Pre-Pro, Greenway's Cream Ale (Syracuse) advertised it was:
    Those are the 4 that come to mind but gotta admit that I never real paid close attention. As you said, if a brewer used rice in its lager, it was possible that they'd use the same adjunct in their ale but not always. Harvard in Lowell used rice in their lager but corn grits in their ale.

    * By the post-Repeal period, US brewers weren't particularly exacting (compared with the modern beer geek) about what they labeled "cream ale". As has been noted frequently in writing most of the beers called "cream ale" were closer to the pre-Pro era's "sparkling (or lively or present use) ales" and once Genesee's blended product of ale and beer took off in the 1960s, things got even more confusing as far as yeast, hopping levels and ingredients went.
     
  10. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (193) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    Could taste like it has A cereal fruitiness if that's what you're going for. Last time I used Kohatu in an IPA it tasted like fruity pebbles in a weird way
     
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  11. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    Hmmm I may go with loral then.
     
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  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    It certainly won't be a traditional cream ale, but I liked the character Loral gave to Stone's Hop Revolver, so I think it would work in this application.
     
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  13. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Traditionally, yes, but . . . you know . . . brewers like to take their liberties with "styles".

    Every time a US brewer makes a Kolsch, I just cringe. They tend to bear little resemblance to what you'd find in Cologne. Kolsch =/= Blonde Ale. /rant
     
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  14. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    isnt a kolsch just pilsner malt and bittering hops?
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,059) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Utilizing a Kolsch yeast strain and proper fermentation conditions followed by lagering is key as well.

    Brewing beer is not just a case of ingredients but just as importantly (more importantly?) brewing process as well.

    Cheers!
     
  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Initiate (187) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Pretty sure u can just use the box of minute rice since it has been pre-geletanized. I see no reason to pay so much for flakes rice.
     
    EvenMoreJesus likes this.
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    I always thought it was either, but probably because American lagers went either way and because cream ale has been described as a response by ale breweries to paler lagers gaining market share. I don't know how authoritative this BT article is but it does suggest rice could be used.
     
  18. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Yep. Just pour 'em right in the mash tun. No need to cook them in a cereal mash as they've already been cooked.
     
  19. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    And finishing hops. And proper fermentation temperatures. And lagering (sometimes).
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,343) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Late hops in a traditional Kolsch aren't really typical (nor unheard of). But I'd wager most commercial American "Kolsches" use late hops.
     
    EvenMoreJesus likes this.
  21. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I'd say more importantly. I just kegged a kolsch about 20 minutes ago. kolsch yeast, 100% pilsner, and just some noble bittering hops. water wa
    Do I adjust the water absorption the same as grain or does it soak up more?
     
  22. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,059) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    What were your fermentation conditions (e.g., fermentation temperature)?

    Will you be lagering this beer?

    Cheers!
     
    ghostinthemachine likes this.
  23. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Devotee (459) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    You can if you want. Just follow the directions on the box. I just treat it like grain. Either way will work just fine. Shouldn't be a problem in a recipe like this, but I'd make sure you have enough diastatic power in your base malt to convert the rice and I might use some rice hulls, just in case.
     
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  24. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    It's lagering in the keg for a while. I fermented with k-97 at 65 degrees and ramped it up to 72.
     
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  25. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    The rice ale came out fantastic!
     
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  26. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    You'll see many recipes with a small percentage of wheat malt. I believe I have read that this is not traditional but is being done by some modern brewers in koln. One of the beer rags recently featured an article on the style and provided a recipe with wheat malt but did not discuss why it was included
     
  27. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,059) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    I have read posts by Ron (@patto1ro) where he has stated that some of the German breweries used wheat as part of the grain bill.

    Beyond the grains and hops to my perspective the other 'ingredient' that matters is the yeast strain. I am personally a fan of Wyeast 2565 fermented cool (e.g., 60 degrees F) since this strain creates a subdued but notable ester that tastes like a white wine flavor (e.g., a PNW Sauvignon Blanc) to me. This adds a pleasant flavor profile that I very much appreciate in this beer style.

    Cheers!
     
  28. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    +1. My choice as well.
     
  29. anchornm

    anchornm Initiate (109) Nov 5, 2016 New Mexico

    I know I am "late to the party", but I am totally miffed about the term "crushable".
    I kinda read it two ways:
    1) a crisp beer that won't get you smacked too fast.
    2) a beer that is very drinkable
    All these terms mean nothing. REALLY, what is the goal of this beer, and (in a larger context), what is the goal of crushability?
     
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  30. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (715) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I am totally crushed by the term "miffed" :grin: ...think the OP just meant sessionable.
     
  31. anchornm

    anchornm Initiate (109) Nov 5, 2016 New Mexico

    That would make sense. Adding adjuncts to beer lowers the flavor, and adds to the ABV -- adjuncts are not the way to go (if you want a session beer)... I love session beers - my strategy is to make Ordinary Bitter, or Scotch 60 - you can drink it all day, and it has loads of character and flavor...
     
  32. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (715) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Not exactly...when adding adjuncts, replace some of the base malt instead of increasing the grainbill. Adjuncts can be added to enhance body also (think oatmeal). Depends on what style you are trying to brew...a blonde ale could be a candidate, imho.
     
  33. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,305) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Many of the recipes for British Bitter have terrified wheat, maize, or invert sugar. All of those can add flavor.
     
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  34. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (715) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Not all adjuncts are scary :rolling_eyes:
     
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  35. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Initiate (187) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    How scared are they?
     
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  36. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Aspirant (280) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    You can use minute rice, or even quick or instant grits...no need to cook any one of those since they are pre-gelatinized. You can also use instant Cream Of Rice cereal,
    Where I live, there are lots of Indian/Pakistani supermarkets...I always buy flaked corn and/or rice "poha" (the thin variety) and both also work quite well for brewing.
     
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  37. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,305) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Darned autocorrect - .torrified.
     
  38. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (193) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I’m totally annoyed by the term sessionable.
     
  39. Bryan12345

    Bryan12345 Disciple (392) Mar 17, 2016 Texas

    I wouldn’t. A blonde should be full of flavor and not artificially enhanced. A blonde ale should be that way too :wink:
     
  40. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (198) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana


    an easy drinking, light bodied beer. Not necessarily low alcohol. I guess quaff-able would have been a better word to use. Anyways, this beer came out great. Very easy to put down on hot days.
     
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