Flavor Difference: Lactobacillus vs. Pediococcus

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by InVinoVeritas, Sep 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. InVinoVeritas

    InVinoVeritas Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    I’m about 60 pages in reading American Sour Beers, great book as many of us have already discovered. Lactobacillus verses Pediococcus, as a general comparison, my understanding just like saccharomyces there are many specific strains (maybe more), what’s the flavor different? They are both lactic acid producing bacteria; lacto working faster and unlike Pedio, doesn’t need Brett to consume diacetyl. Therefore, with the extra time and need of Brett, what does Pedio give you Lacto doesn’t?
     
    #1 InVinoVeritas, Sep 10, 2015
  2. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Pedio can take the beer to a lower pH than lacto. I believe pedio is also hop tolerant.
     
    #2 minderbender, Sep 10, 2015
    machalel, OldSock and InVinoVeritas like this.
  3. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Pedio is also more attenuative. Most strains are better suited for the conditions after primary fermentation is complete, although there are Lacto species/strains at home in fermented beer. Pedio's slow speed also buys time for the Sacch and Brett to work before the pH drops significantly, which influences their byproducts. The choice of which to use really comes down to your process, preferences, and constraints.
     
    #3 OldSock, Sep 10, 2015
    koopa, machalel and InVinoVeritas like this.
  4. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Lacto/pedio/brett beers taste better than lacto beers and lacto/brett beers. Fact!
     
    #4 Brew_Betty, Sep 10, 2015
    InVinoVeritas likes this.
  5. InVinoVeritas

    InVinoVeritas Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    All the blends I see are the cocktail of lacto/pedio/brett/sac. Are there any blends without lacto, i.e. pedio/brett or pedio/brett/sac blends?
     
    #5 InVinoVeritas, Sep 10, 2015
  6. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I don't think so. I'd like to have Roeselare minus the sacc so I could use whatever sacc I wanted.
     
    #6 Brew_Betty, Sep 10, 2015
    InVinoVeritas likes this.
  7. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Cascade only does Lacto and gets super sour. Jolly Pumpkin recommends Lacto and Brett to clone their beers. AFAIK Hill Farmstead only uses Lacto for their Saisons along with Brett.
     
    #7 jbakajust1, Sep 10, 2015
  8. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Pedio produces diacetyl, though it should be reduced with proper aging. Impatient people like me prefer lacto.
     
    #8 skivtjerry, Sep 11, 2015
  9. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Hill Farmstead lacto will get as sour as you want and then some... percolating in my basement right now.
     
    #9 skivtjerry, Sep 11, 2015
  10. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    any idea what type of lacto it is? I believe plantaram and brevis are supposed to be heavy acid producers. The former being very hop intolerant, the latter being surprisingly hop tolerant.
     
    #10 koopa, Sep 11, 2015
  11. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    One thing Ive noticed with lacto beers is that they seem to have a bit more silkier/thicker mouthfeel than ones that include pedio
     
    #11 ryane, Sep 11, 2015
  12. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    No idea, but given the makeup of some HF saisons, I'd say it has good hop tolerance.
     
    #12 skivtjerry, Sep 11, 2015
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.